Cena NOC

[Streets Wilson]

John Cena, they do everything they possibly can to make him the #1 face... but he's still booed heavily in his home town. He's the exact opposite of Stone Cold. They did everything they could to make Stone Cold the #1 heel, but every week there was just more and more cheers. You couldn't even write something that sad. Booed in your hometown like that, it's not X-Pac heat, thats John Cena heat. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it. The announcers pitifully trying to play it off like its just not happening. "This crowd is behind Cena here" Meanwhile as they say that its just a very loud chant of "CM Punk" over and over again... Whatever


On a slghtly related note, that Ziggler vs Orton match was CRAZY.

['The Standard' Ashton Daniels]

i honestly think they should have made cena heel, because most people dont like him anyway, add all the kids that would to turn on him because he turned heel, he would have real heat, its stupid now keeping him as a huge face. Daniel Bryan and CM Punk are far more over than Cena is now

So happy Punk kept the title, even if it was a shitty way to keep it on him.

[The Soul Of Philly]

If they turned him heel, he'd get the same reaction except flipped men cheering women and children booing.

No one is more over than Cena, EVERYONE has a opinion of him. Plus, he's the only guy aside from Sheamus that you can put on a late night show or any media appearance and say, that's guy is a pro wrestler. You see Punk and think he was a punk rock singer or something. Brian and you see a MMA guy.

and it wasn't a "shitty" way, you want to see a rematch don't you?

And plenty of people have been booed in their hometown, Punk was just recently booed in Chi-town. And the crowd WAS behind Cena because there was a Cena chant going.

I'm sorry, but the amount of dumb in that post is terrible because they didn't do everythign to make Stone Cold the #1 heel, he didn't change a bit from the 3:16 promo on, hell, he really didn't change, just the people that were put in front of him. They could have done more to make him the #1 heel.

[Streets Wilson]

well according to "them" themselves, they did do everything they could to make Stone Cold a heel... If your calling the great Jim Ross a liar that's your own business. People hating you and not wanting to see you wrestle is not being "over". that's why I mentioned "x-pac heat" I saw Punk in Chi-town, and I wouldn't say he was actually "booed" it was sort of a mixed reaction, the difference is, he's actually a heel, and for Cena, it was mixed as well, as it usually is, but it was booing more than cheering for sure. Now... I'm somebody who has watched wrestling my entire life, and most likely always will, if only due to the fact that theirs nothing better on. Me the fan, do not like to see John Cena every week especially in the same exact old thing he's been doing for the past 5 years. He's gotten much better at actually "wrestling" in the ring. But his character is extremely bland and un-entertaining. Quite frankly I don't want to see somebody come out and say lines plagurized from other people. "the champ is here".. ok Ali... "come get some"... ok "the 80's". Little kids like him.... fine. I'm not a little kid, and neither is the average wrestling fan. The wrestling fan has now just moved on to other things because they don't like the product anymore because its aimed at little children. They all went to MMA and football, that's why when you compare the ratings and such they were much greater during the "attitude era". and once again, Jim Ross has the same theory regarding this as well.

the product is sort of picking up in a way lately, as the PPV was actually entertaining, unlike the ones i've seen like the past... 4 or 5 years. I remember ordering wrestlemania both this year and last, and being horrifically dissapointed in the quality of matches.

[Jason Cashe]

ZIGGLER is more over with the fans than Cena and Ziggler has Vickie with him. I can't stand her. I imagine Carmen Rivera in drag looking exactly like her when I see her now. That or Harris in drag, whichever way it goes. JOKING!!

['The Standard' Ashton Daniels]

Sept 20, 2012 19:23:49 GMT -4 The Soul Of Philly said:

If they turned him heel, he'd get the same reaction except flipped men cheering women and children booing.

No one is more over than Cena, EVERYONE has a opinion of him. Plus, he's the only guy aside from Sheamus that you can put on a late night show or any media appearance and say, that's guy is a pro wrestler. You see Punk and think he was a punk rock singer or something. Brian and you see a MMA guy.

and it wasn't a "shitty" way, you want to see a rematch don't you?

And plenty of people have been booed in their hometown, Punk was just recently booed in Chi-town. And the crowd WAS behind Cena because there was a Cena chant going.

I'm sorry, but the amount of dumb in that post is terrible because they didn't do everythign to make Stone Cold the #1 heel, he didn't change a bit from the 3:16 promo on, hell, he really didn't change, just the people that were put in front of him. They could have done more to make him the #1 heel.

NO i dont want to see a rematch AT ALL, i love punk but Cena is BORRING, i understand why he's the top babyface, but doesn't mean i have to like or nor anyone else and except women and kids, not many people do, i think its time for him to be heel, he would be far more over as a heel because the people cheering him now cheer him because he's face, he turns heel, they WILL boo him.

[Streets Wilson]

I really don't understand what the writers are doing over there. You have someone like Daniel Bryan who was about to EXPLODE in popularity at around wrestlemania, the fans chanting yes, wanting to see him and Sheamus have a real knock down, drag out fight at wrestlemania.... and what do they do with this?.... Sheamus kicks him in the face and pins him in 10 seconds, and they pretend that the fans are "mocking" daniel bryan to try and... defuse his popularity. Thats not intelligent. Their stupid. When someone is shooting up in popularity you don't do that. You do that with someone like John Cena, who is at the point that Hogan was in 96, getting booed. Getting booed because people are sick of the same bullshit. Turns out as were seeing now, he still got "over" Far more than Cena. In fact, the daniel bryan and Kane thing is possibly the most "over" thing going on right now.

[Lord Raab]

I am a female and I don't like Cena at all. He's so overrated and literately is one of the reasons why I don't watch WWE because of his stuff all over the place. Can we just have one RAW or Smackdown episode without his face there for once please because it's a bloody joke now.

[Jules]

Cena = money

I worked a lot doing supply teaching with kids 7-11 last year and I reckon 99% of the boys I talked to about wrestling all loved Cena. I'm no Cena mark (actually given up on WWE again after WM), but I think people need to realise what the WWE is: it's big business; it's like Hollywood, 99% of the output is aimed at the lowest common denominator. While kids are still buying the Cena merch he will always be #1 guy in the company (besides that, the guy busts his ass with his all-round work ethic, he deserves a bit of success).

Wrestling fans, or rather WWE fans either have to accept this necessary evil, or stop watching the product. I'm sure there are plenty of wrestling shows out there that put on a quality show; WWE hasn't been producing good wrestling shows for at least a decade.

[Lord Raab]

The funny thing is that I stopped watching WWE back in 2007 so it works fine for me.

['The Standard' Ashton Daniels]

Sept 21, 2012 9:57:30 GMT -4 Lord Raab said:

I am a female and I don't like Cena at all. He's so overrated and literately is one of the reasons why I don't watch WWE because of his stuff all over the place. Can we just have one RAW or Smackdown episode without his face there for once please because it's a bloody joke now.

Well cena is out for up to 6 weeks now after surgery so good news all round

[Jason Cashe]

Yeah but that doesn't mean he won't be ON RAW. He's injured and they can go around that without him really wrestling. Then again, Cena can be protected in the ring and will more than likely wrestle before the 6 weeks. I think he sells but whoever said he was the opposite of Hogan modern times, then you've hit it on the head. He is Hogan for todays WWE but the difference is fans are smarter now, they'd have booed Hogan back then if they'd have known better. Wrestling has been more respected and broken down and actual talent gets loved now over just star power. Cena still has star power, he has millions of fans and you don't have to be one. I'm not. He understands people shit on his skills but he does it 100% with everything he has every night and you have to appreciate that.

[Streets Wilson]

the man is to be respected no doubt... he is where he is. he's gotten much better inside the ring, mostly due to the fact that he's working with good people though. People like RVD and CM Punk can make him look good. He's always respectful to the veterans from what I understand, and that's how he'll continue to get better. When a man like Dusty Rhodes, or Michael Hayes, even and especially people like Kevin Nash, and Sean Waltman (who I beleive is down at developmental training people and such, thank god. They need someone like that who knows exactly what it takes to get "over" and besides that, is amazing in the ring. He led the way for people like CM Punk and ... Kofi Kingston or whatever, and nobody should ever forget it. From what I hear in interviews from him they're not very impressive down there at the developmental, he says people are happy to be mid-card and such and he thinks its horrible for the business in general and their own development. In one recent interview i watched he said Dusty Rhodes was mentioned one time and the people didn't know who he even was... the look of disgust on his face... unforgivable stuff.

[The Main Attraction]

Sept 21, 2012 10:27:31 GMT -4 'The Standard' Ashton Daniels said:

Sept 21, 2012 9:57:30 GMT -4 Lord Raab said:

I am a female and I don't like Cena at all. He's so overrated and literately is one of the reasons why I don't watch WWE because of his stuff all over the place. Can we just have one RAW or Smackdown episode without his face there for once please because it's a bloody joke now.

Well cena is out for up to 6 weeks now after surgery so good news all round

Pssssh! It's Called Via Satellite...

[The Soul Of Philly]

Seriously, the ignorant hate of Cena is astounding. Cena had good/great matches with the following people: Khali, Batista (Summerslamm when it was face/face not WM26), Bobby Lashley, and other less than stellar talents. I don't understand why people always come back to "HE ALWAYS COMEBACK!" arguement, I hate that he doesn't sell the after effects of a match, but the comeback argument, THATS wrestler and always been wrestling. The babyface in a match and in a feud should be bested 4 out of 5 times, or 2 out of 3 or 6 out of 7, etc etc etc. They also follow the formula where he sets up a chain of moves that lead to a finisher in a comeback fashion. Rock had his, Austin, HBK, just going off WWE history, all had they're own set ups.

But what pisses me off is people bitch that he does this and that, but he gets TOLD to do this and that. And then people will say, "Well, he's respected enough to say, hey, no I don't think it should go that way," Yes, he is, but he has enough respect that when the boss comes to you and tells you that he'd want it to go a certain way, most of the time you're going to do what he said.

And another thing, I don't think you know what the "term" over means, he doesn't get a "Get off my TV" reaction and if you think that, you need to stop giving your opinion. He gets a true tweener reaction because no matter what he does, he will almost always have a 50/50 split. When he's heel, the males will treat him the way they treated Hogan when Hogan went heel, they will cheer him because he's a cool Hogan that says what they think, it's the same reason why the smarks cheer Punk.

I mean, it was Cena vs The Rock, the attitude era ICON, the guy who had MORE star power than Cena, in his hometown, and it still came down to.....

LET'S GO CENA! CENA SUCK! LETS GO CENA! CENA SUCK![/size]

On top of that, his merch SELLS and has been selling for years. He comes out with a new shirt, it quickly becomes the top selling T-Shirt they have. He goes on Regis and Kelly, he goes on Today, he goes on Conan, he goes on David Letterman, he goes to the Fiesta Bowl and flips the coin at the beginning of the game.

From the beginning of his theme to the end of his matches, everyone has a feeling towards him and they express it, so, tell me again, how isn't he over?

I'll address something else in a second post

[The Soul Of Philly]

Sept 21, 2012 9:08:36 GMT -4 Streets Wilson said:

I really don't understand what the writers are doing over there. You have someone like Daniel Bryan who was about to EXPLODE in popularity at around wrestlemania, the fans chanting yes, wanting to see him and Sheamus have a real knock down, drag out fight at wrestlemania.... and what do they do with this?.... Sheamus kicks him in the face and pins him in 10 seconds, and they pretend that the fans are "mocking" daniel bryan to try and... defuse his popularity. Thats not intelligent. Their stupid. When someone is shooting up in popularity you don't do that. You do that with someone like John Cena, who is at the point that Hogan was in 96, getting booed. Getting booed because people are sick of the same bullshit. Turns out as were seeing now, he still got "over" Far more than Cena. In fact, the daniel bryan and Kane thing is possibly the most "over" thing going on right now.

That bolded part truly shows why you don't understand what you're saying. They aren't "trying to say the fans are mocking him" to "difuse his popularity" if anything it's increasing it why? Because when he's in the ring, shown on the tron, the crowd is involved, they're investing themselves into the show the same way people said, "YOU SUCK" during Angle's theme. It gets them involved into the show and invested into the character which means more eyes on the TV during RAW and Smackdown and more reason to buy they're PPVs because aside from The John Cena Championship match and WWE championship match, there is little reason to buy the PPVs.

And to be honest, NO ONE thought he was going to explode in popularity around WM. The "Yes" chants didn't start until WM when he came out. And really, you're bitching about how the match went when it made people care about Daniel Bryan and gave us a fantastic 2 out of three match the next PPV which then lead DB to having three great matches with Punk and Kane.

Next you're going to tell me that bringing The Rock back was a mistake aren't you? Or maybe breaking up a great and over team like The Rockers was a mistake.

[Streets Wilson]

Sept 21, 2012 18:25:36 GMT -4 The Soul Of Philly said:

Sept 21, 2012 9:08:36 GMT -4 Streets Wilson said:

I really don't understand what the writers are doing over there. You have someone like Daniel Bryan who was about to EXPLODE in popularity at around wrestlemania, the fans chanting yes, wanting to see him and Sheamus have a real knock down, drag out fight at wrestlemania.... and what do they do with this?.... Sheamus kicks him in the face and pins him in 10 seconds, and they pretend that the fans are "mocking" daniel bryan to try and... defuse his popularity. Thats not intelligent. Their stupid. When someone is shooting up in popularity you don't do that. You do that with someone like John Cena, who is at the point that Hogan was in 96, getting booed. Getting booed because people are sick of the same bullshit. Turns out as were seeing now, he still got "over" Far more than Cena. In fact, the daniel bryan and Kane thing is possibly the most "over" thing going on right now.

That bolded part truly shows why you don't understand what you're saying. They aren't "trying to say the fans are mocking him" to "difuse his popularity" if anything it's increasing it why? Because when he's in the ring, shown on the tron, the crowd is involved, they're investing themselves into the show the same way people said, "YOU SUCK" during Angle's theme. It gets them involved into the show and invested into the character which means more eyes on the TV during RAW and Smackdown and more reason to buy they're PPVs because aside from The John Cena Championship match and WWE championship match, there is little reason to buy the PPVs.

And to be honest, NO ONE thought he was going to explode in popularity around WM. The "Yes" chants didn't start until WM when he came out. And really, you're bitching about how the match went when it made people care about Daniel Bryan and gave us a fantastic 2 out of three match the next PPV which then lead DB to having three great matches with Punk and Kane.

Next you're going to tell me that bringing The Rock back was a mistake aren't you? Or maybe breaking up a great and over team like The Rockers was a mistake.

no... they were doing it make him heel. The point is when someone is naturally becoming a face and about to cross a threshhold you don't just make up some random other bullshit and lie and say they were mocking him. They were just chanting yes, how would anyone know if someone was being mocked or not? They clearly wanted to see a match and not 1 kick to the face. Everyone could see that. I was watching it live... that's what I wanted to see. That's what everyone in the room wanted to see. It was wrestlemania... nothing needs to be bolded to see that you don't know what YOUR (like that?) talking about. They were already involved... thats the whole subject, they were chanting for him. They were appreciative of both men, because they were ready for what mostly everyone expected to be the best, show stealing match on the card, and they ended it anticlimactically, making a lot of people feel like they didn't get their moneys worth. What lead to daniel bryan having great matches with Kane and CM Punk, was daniel bryan having great matches with kane and cm punk. wrestlemania isn't there to set up other matches it IS (booyah) the match.

[Streets Wilson]

Sept 21, 2012 18:18:48 GMT -4 The Soul Of Philly said:

he doesn't get a "Get off my TV" reaction

then why are you the only one who has responded that doesn't feel that way? I'm pretty sure everyone that posts here is a wrestling fan. This is all just a manifestation of a larger issue which is that people don't like the current product. That's why they used to be getting 5's 6's and 7's in the ratings back... you know when.... and they now get 2's and 3's... Thats less people in case you don't understand. Stone Cold was the most popular and successful superstar in their history, and that includes eespecially financially . Go start looking up actual facts, because I don’t think you truly understand how popular wrestling was back then, but especially Austin. And it wasn’t just because of 1 person… it was an overall situation. Cena has basically paralleled and represents the exact time and era that has decreased their overall popularity.. and thats why you see so many people hating him. Cena makes a lot of money, but if you were to account for inflation, and then add on the people that stopped watching because of him and the era and attitude that he represents, it really wouldn't look so good then would it...


maybe you don't understand why I put the term "over" in quotations. The people were chanting for Daniel Bryan and sheamus because they wanted to see a real match. They still like wrestling. They don't really care who's "over", they like good wrestling. Thats why they cheer for people dolph ziggler when he's having a good match, or doing something impressive even though vicky guerrero is with him. Thats how someone gets "over". Wrestling fans like good wrestling, they will react to moves they appreciate and shows of athleticism and toughness. John Cena has a place... whatever. Is it really that hard to understand that people are just sick of the same exact same thing every single week, and that even more than that… don’t like him and his moves? As has been previously stated, it happens to everyone eventually anway. It happened to hogan. Thats the reason people bring up the heel turn. quite frankly I don't care if he's face or heel, I still won't want to watch his matches. I watch wrestling, and I know and hang with wrestling fans often enough, and its usually pretty close to unanimous that people don't want to see him. He's extremely popular with young kids... we already know that. Are you a little kid? Am I? No. And I'm a wrestling fan. If you like what little kids like thats fine. But it still has nothing to do with the subject. The subject is what their doing with his character. The subject is the fact that so many people truly don't like to watch him wrestle. When I was a little kid, (which is apparently who its all about), I don't seem to recall half the audience booing stone cold steve Austin, the New Age Outlaws... In fact I don’t actually remember them really booing many people back then were they? If someone who is supposed to be a heel gets a mixed or positive reaction that’s a positive reflection on them or the booking or writing or something or whatever... if someone who the company entire machine is behind trying to make them the most popular and number 1 superstar is getting a mixed to negative reaction... someones not doing something right. They can call it "controversial" if they want. It’s funny how in order to even have an argument you have to try to spin a 50/50 reaction as something positive. You just exposed the whole thing right there “no matter what he does it’ll always be 50/50”… There’s some people that get an ACTUAL positive reaction you know. So quite frankly, its BOLD-YOU-BOLD that should stop offering your "opinion" because I offer something much better - facts. I’m done here.

[The Soul Of Philly]

No, it used to be THE match, it hasn't been THE match for the last several years, because three weeks later, you get the same card with maybe a new match or two. You get the same title matches, you get the same mid card matches.

Look at WM28 and Extreme Rules this year:

- Both had Sheamus vs Bryan, Jericho vs Punk, Show vs Rhodes, Orton vs Kane.
- You got The Miz vs Santino which was a result of Team Johnny vs Team Teddy
- The only advertised match with more than 6 days notice was the Cena vs Brock match.

Other than that you got a Ryback Squash, Clay win, and pointless Divas match.

You'd have to go back to 24, which is almost 5 years ago, which is a good bit of time in change given the policy changes, talent changes, format changes, to find a PPV following WM (Backlash/April Extreme Rules or RAW only Backlash and Smackdown only Judgement Day combined) that didn't have more than half of their matches being WM rematches (Defined as a match featuring all parties involved at WM so I counted single maches that had another wrestler added or two added). Before that? The brand split with exclusive PPVs and that's because Judgement day had an extra month of build for Smackdown, but if you take that same criteria but add matches that were of fueds that STARTED at WM, you'd have to go back. The idea that WM is the END is no longer.

I ask you a question, have you ever tried to just enjoy the product rather than scrutinize it? I mean if you go into watching a PPV or RAW expecting to see the same shit and you see one thing that reminds you of the same shit but ignore everything else? I mean, you said it's one of the better PPVs you've seen and you only said the orton/ziggler show was crazy what else of the event was good?

Oh, and "not many people like him" Clearly, if it's 50/50 for Cena, 5,000 people cheering for him isn't alot of people for a Live Monday night raw, or around 1,500 at a house show is a lot , given 3 house shows a night for the guy, that's 4,500 a week for house shows which means 10,000 people a week are cheering for a guy. No, not at a lot of people at all

And don't take my defending of him as a sign that i like that guy that I'm a mark for the guy, but he get's WAAAAY too much flak for what he does. Obama sees the flak he gets and says Damn.

[The Soul Of Philly]

You know PPVs are normally heavier with smarks than RAW is, hence why on PPVs, Cena gets more boos than he normally would and Ziggler more cheers.

also, "2's and 3's?" The lowest RAW of the summer was, I believe, 2.7 somewhere around there, no one gets 5, 6,7 unless it's Football, playoff baseball/basketball, or something that only happens every so often (Presidential Debates, FIFA World Cup, Olympics) The reason why no one has said anything is probably because no one really feels like arguing with a bunch of smarks who just hate with terrible reasons. I mean, do you know how many TV shows there are on cable TV now? If anything can come close to a three now-a-days, it should be considered a high success, and don't try arguing with me I had this shit drilled in my for a full year of college.

Oh yea. and Wrestling's, hold on for this shocking news, isn't popular anymore. It's not in teh public eye. I know this is a bad way to put it but as soon as the GLBT community grew, the realization of two men in oil and almost no clothing was kinda gay grew and when kids 14-18 are in high school and watch wrestling and continusally get made fun of for it because it's gay, people stop watching it. Hence why you see the 18-25 demographic taking a hit compared to the Attitude era because the 12-16 and 17-24 demo then, now is the 17-24 and 25-35 demo which by now, don't really care what public thinks of them, but the 6-11 demo then is now that 12-16 demo which is getting made fun of watching "gay wrestling" and despite attempts, kids are assholes and will make fun of anything they can to make themselves cool because all it takes is for one cool kid on the playground to deem wrestling gay for a snowball effect

[The Soul Of Philly]

I ask do the people you hang out with consider themselves smarks? I have only a couple friends who are into wrestling, probably three or four and the marks love him the smarks hate him. I get you're point though, but you're feeling and your group of friend's feeling isn't the majority.

And yes I understand that people do get 100 reactions, but if Cena turns heel, nothing will change as far as the split of reactions, he'll get cheered for being a heel by the smarks, because the smarks don't respect him enough to boo him and the marks will cheer for him. I really don't think you understand that. The smarks won't boo him because at the end of the day, he's still Cena and his alignment won't change the fact he has a stigma as a bad worker.

But the bigger reason I'm defending is your naming the person at fault, but not blaming them.

[President Jeff]

When it comes down to it, its all about Money. With all the share holders and sponcers that the WWE has, they have to be careful now in what they do. And with Cena having the most Merchendise Sales, don't expect him to turn heel any time soon.

[amyzing]

For the record, I was there in Boston that night. I was part of the "Let's go Cena" crowd.

WWE can't turn Cena heel without him pretty much selling out everything he stands for. A heel can't promote "Hustle, Loyalty & Respect" or "Never Give Up" as wrods to live by. A heel, however, can promote "Intelligence, Intensity and Integrity" if he acts like he's better than everyone or "Best in the world" if he's been champion for a year and a half.

One of the things I like about Cena is he does NOT care what the fans cheer as long as he gets a reaction from them.

So I cheered at Night of Champions and I will cheer him again at Hell in a Cell (if it actually comes to Boston).

[Michael Callahan]

Hooray for bumping old threads.

[Your JESUS]

Sgt. Slaughter, simple as that!! His heel turn would never happen let alone turn on U.S.A. For Iraq...they did it and it was solid gold!!

[Pepsi]

Hulk Hogan turning heel and joining NWO is a perfect example of how a Cena turn could work. The major differences though are that WCW had a stacked roster when they turned Hogan. There were plenty of popular faces to take up the mantle (Savage, Sting, Luger). WWE lacks anyone with enough traction to take that role from Cena. The company would be stupid to turn him until they have a baby face who can take up his role.