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Post by Your JESUS on Mar 19, 2013 16:21:50 GMT -4
So there is a dude who has become a woman that competes in mma, against women, really don't think that's a fair match up. Definately dont agree with the arguement that this now turned woman should have aninimity about her previous sex. Fighters have to adhere to a lot of scrutiny, drug testing, and weight restrictions. If this person wants to compete in Women's MMA then it should be disclosed that she was previously a he. If the other women mma fighters still want the fight then so be it. But this arguement that she/he wanted it to be a secret sounds shady, like they were trying to get over on an athletic commision. I mean that sounds similar to say Michael Phelps changing sex, getting hormone replacement therapy and competing in the Olympics in women's swimming. I would think it wouldn't fly there...who knows maybe the same argument would arise if someone tried it. Just curious others take on it.
What do you guys think? And Please lets not get all hyped up either way, I'm not trying to argue about it. I have already seen the Gay/Lesbian/Community rally behind it by bashing anyone who disagrees with as a form of hate or Transphobia as I recently saw on a twitter posting. It's your opinion versus another as it pertains to a sport sanctioned by an athletic commision. Just interested in other view points on this, who knows I might take up professional athletics soon, woman of the world watch out the woman hater is joing the team, just kidding.
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Post by Jason Cashe on Mar 19, 2013 16:34:38 GMT -4
I believe it still stands that if transgender commits a crime, they still get put into a prison with their Birthed Sex. I understand the Olympics allow it as well and I'm not someone who should be asked because I too agree it's not okay. She/He wants attention which is why it's a story right now. That's all. Never will you see it in the UFC and I myself called Women's MMA coming to the UFC. I think Dana is fucking Rhonda Rousey. Hands her the Title when not that long ago there was a 4 Man Tournament to determine I believe the Flyweight Champion but not the women's? AND this chick is also gonna be Coach on Ultimate Fighter...ALREADY!?! He's putting it deep and I don't like Rhonda myself, can't wait til she gets put down and beaten.
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Post by Level-Two on Mar 19, 2013 16:47:19 GMT -4
I believe it still stands that if transgender commits a crime, they still get put into a prison with their Birthed Sex. I understand the Olympics allow it as well and I'm not someone who should be asked because I too agree it's not okay. She/He wants attention which is why it's a story right now. That's all. Never will you see it in the UFC and I myself called Women's MMA coming to the UFC. I think Dana is fucking Rhonda Rousey. Hands her the Title when not that long ago there was a 4 Man Tournament to determine I believe the Flyweight Champion but not the women's? AND this chick is also gonna be Coach on Ultimate Fighter...ALREADY!?! He's putting it deep and I don't like Rhonda myself, can't wait til she gets put down and beaten. You're full of it. There was no flyweight champion. That's why they had the tournament. Jose Aldo and Dominick Cruz both received UFC titles for being champions in WEC. Don't act like Ronda Rousey is an exception. As for the subject at hand, I don't like the idea. I'm not 100% on it either way, I'd need to learn more about it but I have heard of the fighter and this story and I am no as of right now. If you were born a man, you fight men. If you were born a women, you fight women. If you were born with both, that's a different situation. This is not it. So, I vote no. |
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Post by Jason Cashe on Mar 19, 2013 17:01:43 GMT -4
You're right, I forgot about Aldo and Cruz. Aldo had to pull out of his first defense and I completely forgot about Cruz. Good shit L1 for straightening that out. I still think she's fucking Dana.
I argued with someone during the Olympics when they allowed a Handicapped guy run the relay because they have a Handicap Olympics for that reason. When you open for this change, you remove the purpose and prestige of that a little. Same can be said with Transgender Fighters. The female division is newer and it's still not super popular, Rousey like with the last "Hot Chick" fighter Gina Carrono (Spelling is off I'm sure) but once she lost, she was done for the most part, she moved on as well as the popularity of her. This he/she is knocking chicks out right? It will always be an argument against her/him, whatever. We'll call it "Pat" haha.
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Post by Level-Two on Mar 19, 2013 17:12:59 GMT -4
Here's a good thing to note... from UFC MMA fighter Miesha Tate.
+100
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Post by Jason Cashe on Mar 19, 2013 17:21:27 GMT -4
I really hope someone takes Rousey and demolishes her. At least prevent that damn armbar. I think her one trick hurts the division more than helps. If a division can be dominated by one move, how skilled and developed is the division to begin with? A dude couldn't dominate with one trick like that. Dan Henderson tries to use his Right but has bad nights, Gracies submit folks but they haven't been DOMINATE since early days. Evolution makes the divisions and Females seem to need a stroke of that same evolution.
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Post by Jules on Mar 19, 2013 19:11:09 GMT -4
I don't follow MMA, so I don't know anything about the specifics of the case, but from a general moral and sporting point of view it ultimately it comes down to whether this person being born a male gives her an unfair advantage over the competition. If it doesn't, then it shouldn't matter. But that's down to experts/commissions to decide.
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Post by The Soul Of Philly on Mar 20, 2013 0:18:53 GMT -4
Look, I know dudes who would get their ass beat by some of these chick fighters. I see Tate's point and almost agree with it, but to be honest, Tim Slyvia's shoulders were bigger than most other heavyweight, that dude still couldn't beat a plastic bag in a fight.
As far as Rondo Rousey goes, she's encroaching on GSP/Silva territory simply because they are not many chick fighters where she's going to dominate her division because she's on another level. She's never let a fight go past the first, because she controls the match quickly. She's like the opposite of Shane Carwin, who never let a match get past the first because he KO'd people real quick, but if you took him down, you knew he'd be in trouble, no one has tested Ronda standing up yet, until someone does, she's the best.
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Post by Level-Two on Mar 20, 2013 0:33:27 GMT -4
Um, how long have you been watching MMA?  Shit, I just was barely getting into it as Sylvia was on his way out... but that's a horrible, horrible comparison. Tim was a dominate force in his hay day. Anyways, the point Tate was making is that Fallon Fox still has an unnatural and unfair advantage over the women. Fallon will not fight for the UFC anyways, she/he is getting old. Even if she did, I think Ronda takes Fallon's arm home. |
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Post by The Soul Of Philly on Mar 20, 2013 0:44:58 GMT -4
For as long as I've watched UFC, Tim Slyvia has sucked.
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Post by Jason Cashe on Mar 20, 2013 1:55:46 GMT -4
I was about to dance on that too Level One. Sylvia was a beast in his day as Champion. Arlovski as well, I use to think Arlovski was untouchable but who knew Glass Jaw could be that big of a surprise. When Mir pop snapped Sylvia's arm, I jumped up and was hooting so much, that was awesome!
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Cris
Jobber
HISS
Posts: 75
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Post by Cris on Mar 20, 2013 8:56:39 GMT -4
I barely believe this Fox even wants to fight in the UFC. Big story = controversy = bookings = money. The whole thing just seems silly to me, and after watching a fight of hers, she didn't look overly impressive anyway. This is not beneficial to anyone but Fox and even then she'd get her ass beat.
And on the subject of Mir breaking arms, when he did it to Big Nog I was going crazy! ;D
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Post by Jason Cashe on Mar 20, 2013 14:51:23 GMT -4
I'm still a big Frank Mir fan. Not as promoted as he once was but he's put on some size and is working on his stand up. The guy could make a return to fame. It's be cool but with the Heavyweight Division having a few good fighters anything could happen.
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Post by Your JESUS on Mar 20, 2013 16:12:38 GMT -4
Mir is talented but the biggest douche out there. I did security for a red carpet deal and he was so arrogant it was unreal.
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Post by Level-Two on Mar 20, 2013 16:50:34 GMT -4
Mir is talented but the biggest douche out there. I did security for a red carpet deal and he was so arrogant it was unreal. Damn, when Micheal Lively thinks your a douche... YOU'RE A DOUCHE!  |
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Post by Jason Cashe on Mar 20, 2013 19:17:08 GMT -4
Haha I can see how he'd be arrogant, can kind of see it when he cuts a promo. If you want to call the pre match talk a promo. Still a good fighter, I don't care how he is as a person if he can fight that good and snap folks limbs. Cocky comes with that sport, easy.
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Post by Lord Raab on Mar 20, 2013 19:25:26 GMT -4
Having female MMA fighters in UFC might hopefully get female fighters and fans into MMA more. I for one would love to try MMA training but the nearest one to me is so god damn expensive.
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Post by Your JESUS on Mar 20, 2013 19:43:13 GMT -4
Mir has been working with Jackson's and Jon Jones (another guy I dislike somewhat, but finishes guys unlike G.S.leeP.) Mir with cardio is going to be fucking dangerous. The thing with heavyweight is those lunch box bombs they toss around, no matter your chin a 265, and in some cames 285 pound guy come fight night can sleep anyone.
The comment about Tim Sylvia was crazy, he was talented in his time like Tito, like Severn, and many others. To say he was aweful is crazy though. That would be like seeing the Gracie Hughes fight and saying that Royce was as shitty as they come. Or Fedor getting beat up by Dan Henderson makes Fedor garbage. This sport is amazing, it's constantly changing. People like Mir despite what I think about him are prime examples of what a roller coaster your career can be. Came out as the basest young prospect ever, snapped Silvia's arm. Motorcycle accident, comes back some iffy fights. Redirects himself, returns again this time like a beast, gets the belt back. Not only finishes Big Nog but I think is the only one to have done it, especially by sub and TKO. You see him fight big Country and you wonder why does the UFC keep him around an awful fight. The life of MMA...I think if Tim would have switched camps he might have been able to spark his career in UFC, but he loves training with the same old guys, so you see the same old Tim Sylvia hence why everyone has the tools to beat him these days. It was like facing Bald Bull on Punchout, you know where his flaw is and just have to execute it to put him away. These guys who don't train for every aspect will always fall by the wayside.
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Post by Jason Cashe on Mar 20, 2013 22:58:12 GMT -4
THERE is someone I never understood his fan base. I get that he was good against a bunch of nobodies and Pretenders but Tito Ortiz. He had Wrestling that got shut down by anyone with a good Defense and his GNP was ehh at best but he got FED opponents because UFC needed a star to promote against Pride. Now look at dude, what Ortiz SHOULD have done is never married a Cum Bucket in Jenna Jameson (Gross) and got into Pro Wrestling. He'd have been a decent character in Wrestling and would have been more than he ever could have maintained in MMA.
Nope, instead he Manages MMA Talent? I'm sorry makes dumb fucking deals for MMA Fighters? Who signs with low budget MMA when UFC has a contract to fight someone for a NEW DIVISION on a WORLD WIDE Stage? Dude is dumb in the dome.
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Post by Nathaniel Havok on Mar 21, 2013 5:29:50 GMT -4
Back on subject... Sorry, have to give my opinion. It's bullshit, and it's bogus.
No amount of surgery and/or body modification (estrogen shots, among other things) can change the fact that at one time (and for years upon years), testosterone coursed through the veins of him/her. Fact states that it's the testosterone in men that increase our abilities to perform at a higher level. Thus, he/she has a "leg up" on female competition. These women are drug tested. If high levels of testosterone are found, they're DQed. Plain and simple.
So tell me again why we should let something that once was fueled by testosterone, compete against estrogen based individuals? He/she is easily twice as strong, twice as powerful, and twice as likely to break something on someone. He/she was not built as frail as a woman. HE was intended to be a HE, and HE spent his life growing up and developing as the opposite sex. HE should not be allowed to cut of HIS penis, and magically have the ability to fight women.
If I cut my dick off, then beat the shit out of my fiancee, should I be charged as a man or a woman? Same difference, in my opinion.
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Post by Jason Cashe on Mar 21, 2013 14:16:58 GMT -4
Okay so everyone answer this question seriously.
If you get into a relationship, you love this person. Fall deeply ya know? Years pass, you talk about moving in together, getting married, but one day you realize you've never had the kid discussion. If when you ask you become informed (very teary eyed I'm sure) that she or he was once the other. All the time invested, all the love making, the connection....
Whats your reaction? Can you move past it and continue the relationship? Would you be in prison shortly after for Murder? I think this answers the question in most ways. Not because transgender MMA is the same as a relationship but to sign someone like this who may or may not have an advantage is like a marriage to the UFC or any MMA Promotion. I'd be in a orange jump suit, no lie.
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Post by Michael Callahan on Mar 21, 2013 14:28:42 GMT -4
Okay so everyone answer this question seriously. If you get into a relationship, you love this person. Fall deeply ya know? Years pass, you talk about moving in together, getting married, but one day you realize you've never had the kid discussion. If when you ask you become informed (very teary eyed I'm sure) that she or he was once the other. All the time invested, all the love making, the connection.... Whats your reaction? Can you move past it and continue the relationship? Would you be in prison shortly after for Murder? I think this answers the question in most ways. Not because transgender MMA is the same as a relationship but to sign someone like this who may or may not have an advantage is like a marriage to the UFC or any MMA Promotion. I'd be in a orange jump suit, no lie. I wouldn't care. I'm attracted to feminine beauty and feminine personality traits. I'm attracted to women. If she was once a man, but has changed in such a way that not only is she physically attractive enough as a woman that I haven't actually figured it out for myself (usually you can tell), and has that personality and that feel-good vibe you get from being around a woman then for me, there's no difference. Although I've yet to test the theory, I'd argue that a chick with male genitals (a convincing, attractive, feminine she-male) I wouldn't consider off-limits either. At the end of the day, what is genitalia other than a piece of your anatomy that allows sexual pleasure and the spread of human life? Sure, we'd have to have serious discussions about sexual limits (nothing is going in my butt, ever) but besides that, I don't really see a big difference. The only thing that would get me angry about it is if they kept it from me until it was too late, I found out for myself or they lied about it. I'm an open book and I expect people to be the same way with me. Other than that, I don't see a problem. |
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Post by Reaver on Mar 21, 2013 15:04:15 GMT -4
i think the concept of this thread is whether its ok for a man to fight women in a physical sport or not. regardless of his/her changes, its still a man fighting a woman. if it was a trailer park, they would be arrested and slapped with abuse charges.
i agree with callahan on the sexuality aspect but the fact is that its still a man with male muscle going against women. there are women out there im sure who would take this guy up on the challenge and win but it doesnt make for good money making schemes other than press attention. who would pay money to see this guy fight a chick? it would ruin the sport of MMA and drag it down. people would look at it as a specticle and entertainment like WWE or TNA rather than a legitament sport. (sp?)
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Post by Buckson Gooch on Mar 21, 2013 15:12:42 GMT -4
i think the concept of this thread is whether its ok for a man to fight women in a physical sport or not. regardless of his/her changes, its still a man fighting a woman. if it was a trailer park, they would be arrested and slapped with abuse charges. i agree with callahan on the sexuality aspect but the fact is that its still a man with male muscle going against women. there are women out there im sure who would take this guy up on the challenge and win but it doesnt make for good money making schemes other than press attention. who would pay money to see this guy fight a chick? it would ruin the sport of MMA and drag it down. people would look at it as a specticle and entertainment like WWE or TNA rather than a legitament sport. (sp?) tbh, when I was a kid I wondered if Dennis Rodman would have a sex change and play in the WNBA. It obviously never happened. |
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Post by Reaver on Mar 21, 2013 15:27:36 GMT -4
i think the concept of this thread is whether its ok for a man to fight women in a physical sport or not. regardless of his/her changes, its still a man fighting a woman. if it was a trailer park, they would be arrested and slapped with abuse charges. i agree with callahan on the sexuality aspect but the fact is that its still a man with male muscle going against women. there are women out there im sure who would take this guy up on the challenge and win but it doesnt make for good money making schemes other than press attention. who would pay money to see this guy fight a chick? it would ruin the sport of MMA and drag it down. people would look at it as a specticle and entertainment like WWE or TNA rather than a legitament sport. (sp?) tbh, when I was a kid I wondered if Dennis Rodman would have a sex change and play in the WNBA. It obviously never happened. THEN the wnba would be worth watching lol |
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Post by Buckson Gooch on Mar 21, 2013 15:40:14 GMT -4
tbh, when I was a kid I wondered if Dennis Rodman would have a sex change and play in the WNBA. It obviously never happened. THEN the wnba would be worth watching lol The first thought I had when the WNBA was announced was how the commentators would do. "ALLEY-LAY UP! ALLEY-LAY UP!!!!!" My Dad called in on a sports show and did that and the hosts roared. |
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Post by Jason Cashe on Mar 21, 2013 15:48:14 GMT -4
Chicks with Dicks huh? Yeah, that's a whole new world I don't even want to know is there. I like giving "Mouth to Mouth" and if I had the slightest thought of that formerly having a dick? Yeah..it'd play in my thoughts like whip cream bikinis on a room full of Jessica Albas.
AND no if she had been a man, I would start thinking too much. Couldn't do it. What if she asked for Anal? That'd open some dialog!
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Post by Level-Two on Mar 21, 2013 17:18:44 GMT -4
Always ask to see her baby/child hood pictures first. ;D IT'S A TRAP, IT'S A TRAP, DON'T GET CAUGHT IN THE TRAP!
Although, I'm definitely not up for dating a tyranny in any way shape or forum... Callahan did raise a good point. You THOUGHT she was a girl, you FOUND her attractive enough... you're a little to late, bruh.
With that said, there's only one tyranny I literally couldn't tell the difference... and then there was another one who looked like a women (he/she was in a beauty pageant) but I had heard she was a tyranny beforehand, so it's not as valid.
So, with that said... I don't think I'll run into this problem anytime soon. ;D
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Post by Jules on Mar 21, 2013 17:37:04 GMT -4
Happy I'm married, never have to worry about this problem, ha!
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Post by Nathaniel Havok on Mar 21, 2013 18:41:49 GMT -4
If I found out that my fiancee used to be a dude, and I've wasted years of my time on it... I'm beating his/her ass... Like a dude. Bottom line. That's something you JUST DON'T do. She knew that I was an asshole before she got with me... I should have the right to know if his/her asshole USED to be the only hole he/she had!
It's like I said. This guy/girl had testosterone flowing through his/her veins for YEARS before the sex change. No amount of hormonal therapy can change that, or the development that came along with it. Plain and simple, his/her body grew up as a man, developed as a man, and continues to produce testosterone like a man (regardless of hormonal therapy, testosterone will always be produced in one way or another).
Testosterone is HIGHLY illegal in EVERY female sport. Why? Because to a female, injecting herself with testosterone, is just like a guy injecting himself with HGH. Trust me, I've taken testosterone for YEARS, and even cycled HGH a few times. I know how it works.
Bottom line, it's just not fair. However, the trend still stands... "Blame it on my individuality". If they don't allow him/her to fight, it would go all the way to the supreme court. Just like a guy who is African American, calling Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to assist him in a "racial issue". People just DON'T want to go there. It's the EXACT same scenario... Only it's not skin color, it's genitalia.
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