Asylum 4/21 Discussion and Feedback

[biggs]

So we're just waiting on AJP's wifi to get back up to get the Main Event, so I think I'll get the thanks and all that good stuff out of the way.

Thanks to TMarv, Kash, Lively and AJP for match writing.

Thanks also go to Lively, William D. Williams, Buckson Gooch, Anthony Bailey, Terry Marvin, Keaton Saint, AJP, and Young Mannie for segs. If I missed you, please reply. If I inaccurately attributed a seg to you, accept it as a gift!

Feel free to discuss the show so far!

[The Smooth One]

Hey Biggs...Great show as always. I wanted to apologize..I wanted to squeeze that segment in right after the Lively backstage seg and before that match started..I probably didn't explain that very well or it didn't flow well with the show. Appreciate your hard work!! Thanks Smooth

[Jason Cashe]

Yeah I was wondering...Why is TJ at ringside? Then his big ass disappeared? I was like: "That's not very Smooth...Smooth!" but still a good show and I'll add more of a review tomorrow.

[T-Marv]

Alright, feedback coming while I read the show.

I’m seriously hoping that people liked the opening Segment. I’m trying to make Terry still be a heel but NOT be a bad guy. I like the dynamic coming off of Keaton.

Also, sorry to Phil for not including you in this segment. I had planned to do a backstage with just Terry and Phil and nappy time overtook me.

SHOT THROUGH THE HEART!!!! And here comes one of my favorite Asylum stars to do battle with…. One of my favorite Asylum Stars. Seriously AJP vs. CK could main event Rasslemania. I’m just saying. Decent match. I’m still getting used to the “Asylum Style” of matches but I’m kinda liking it so far.

So my feeling everytime I see a Mannie segment is… “WTF is this trying to accomplish?” Sometimes I really like Mannie’s stuff, and sometimes it just drags on for the point of dragging on. I love the big POP TJ gets when he comes to shut him up at the end. It was awesome and actually made the segment bearable.

AJP and CK alliance? I don’t care if I’m reading too much into this, I’m marking out atm. I want to see these two work together MUCH more.

Lively is so hilarious. The stuff with foul play was right on the money and I’m hoping we get more shit like this in the future.

I’m confused about WDWJ’s segment. He calls on Terry Phil and Atken… but it’s not their match. Did I miss something here? I like that he announcement he’d be joining the tapout title match so it’s awesome. That match is looking pretty stacked so far.

Another GOOD match. I’d have like to have seen something post match… I don’t know what but it felt like something was missing.

This Reginld and Stefan Raab Feud…. I was against it at first. Raab just got done battling authority and this seems a little redundant. But as it goes further and further it’s growing on me.

I love how Mannie was sold as the face in this match even though he’s a douchebag heel. It’s important to get Raab over as the most hated man in APW and I love that this accomplished just that.

YAY! More Lively! And the sexist in every man just smiled a little bit. But seriously I love that Lively bonded with Stefan over that. It was a nice little touch.

REGINALD SAID DOUCHE?? Is that even allowed?

My Match…. Again, looking forward to feedback on all this stuff thank you.

Raab is beating up Reginald again. While I like that they’re really pushing this angle, isn’t it getting a bit redundant? Perhaps that’s just me. I loved the announcement about the qualifying match for the gauntlet. And I still like Reginald and Raab.

Ooooo… Mysterious foreboding between LA and AJP. I’m liking where this is going!

The Main Event… Hmmm, I’m going to have to process this one for a second. I kinda dig the CK interaction with all this. I kinda dig Logan’s new attitude. But IDK… It feels a little odd from a “viewer” Like I don’t know who to cheer for, and I guess maybe that’s a good thing.

That’s one thing I’ve noticed on Asylum is the lack of Heel/face definition. There are a couple clear Heels, a couple clear faces… and a bunch in the middle. I realize with my storyline I’m doing the same thing, but I’ve got an endgame plan and the rest seems… idk. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. I’ll just have to get used to it.

Either way, Great show. I enjoyed the read. Great matches by everyone and the Segments did their part to further things.

[Jason Cashe]

I agree with the Alignment comments. I think Asylum almost has drifted to a middle ground where Alignments are pointless to even have or dictate. AJP seems heel so often but loved all the same time. Logan has his moments but he's a face with heelish touches to him. Even Jair Hopkins plays at heel on occasion so it varies. I tried being a heel face when I was World Champion and since Bailey last year have been Heel. Not sure how to view it any other way but it being an Asylum thing. All the nuts loose in the Asylum bicker and fight, good or bad. I dunno haha..

Again, my review will be sometime today. Just wanted to co-sign that alignment comments Marv made.

[KJE]

Well shit. Great show. Will give more feedback once I ready through thoroughly..

Have to admit... ME... I had no clue any of that was happening. I think that changes things up for me a great deal now.

[T-Marv]

Apr 22, 2013 12:53:48 GMT -4 KJE said:

Well shit. Great show. Will give more feedback once I ready through thoroughly..

Have to admit... ME... I had no clue any of that was happening. I think that changes things up for me a great deal now.

I do too but I think it can be one HELL of a good change. It's all on how you do it.

[The Main Attraction]

Apr 22, 2013 9:17:02 GMT -4 T-Marv said:

Alright, feedback coming while I read the show.

So my feeling everytime I see a Mannie segment is… “WTF is this trying to accomplish?” Sometimes I really like Mannie’s stuff, and sometimes it just drags on for the point of dragging on. I love the big POP TJ gets when he comes to shut him up at the end. It was awesome and actually made the segment bearable.

Well I appreciate all feedback but this kinda cuts a bit, I did actually come up with 90% of the segment and with Biggs finishing the ending. Now personally I felt I did what was needed without missing the point which I believe is something that you did. Mannie is currently about to grace GQ magazine and the night was suppose to be the unveiling, but he felt that he wasn't receiving the admiration as he had hope for so it prompt to walk away; but not with TJ answering Mannie's attack from the week prior. Which resulted in the brawl and ruin unveiling.

Now when you were referring to the flow of my segment, well let's be honest when are celebration segments in pro wrestling not long? Exactly so that means my segment isn't unbearable, maybe it didn't catch your interest but saying it almost unbearable is a bit much. I did what I was suppose to do, I sold my socialite status, I sold TJ, and I sold Mayhem. Case close.

[Jason Cashe]

Again, I'm just gonna hit up things I like and dislike. Mostly like but a few things I think could have been different or better. At least for this show...

Likes
-- The opening segment felt a bit over done. Good but when TMarv did it before many times over it takes away from things a bit. You EXPECT someone to interrupt him and start a spat. Him playing a little on both sides feels right with TMarv. He takes advantage of weakness but knows a good thing and shows respect for it when it occurs. Some call it a bad guy because of the arrogance behind the character. It works. Plus if I can get Keaton Saint at 100% going at TMarv, we have a HUGE match up at Mayhem for the Triple Threat involving Atken. Sucks he missed out on this segment, but it covered some needed stuff so it works. I "liked" it so it couldn't have been THAT over done...haha

-- I wrote AJP/CK match and I hope it filled the need of both involved. I should have hit you both up and need to remember to do that. I stick to your movesets and try to play towards your character so I hoped I did that for you.

-- I enjoyed the segment Lively wrote. Taking a lead is very new for me, I'm use to equal teams or partnerships. I liked this though and Lively did it well. It sells for now and the future.

-- The Main Event was dope. Although I now understand more as to why TMarv questioned Alignments on Asylum. Isn't AJP face? Is KJE becoming a Face now? WHERE was Kash? That had me laughing. He was pooping probably...We need more heels like we need more ingrown toenails. Just not at all!


Dislikes
-- What I don't like about Mannie sometimes as of late is that Uncle Charlie does alot of his talking and that's when he seems to get into his, as TMarv puts it "WTF is this trying to accomplish?” moments. Charlie is more of an awkward character than something that really SELLS Mannie as being "Main Attraction" but I like Alec..Haha!

-- William D. Williams had a weird moment right before the 6 Man Tag. TJ at ringside, GOOCH with Dying Breed carrying chairs! It was wild but confusing. I felt like Sam Beckett on Quantum Leap when he arrived in a new identity. I felt this was placed wrong at first but I'm not sure it was. Just a misunderstanding I believe?

-- I didn't like the ending of the 6-Man Tag. Haha NOT because we lost, but more because there was nothing more to it post match. With Bailey and Kash kind of heated at each other for their own reasons, just felt lacking here. Like Bailey showing some heel actions by continuing to go after Kash or Reaver and Kash attacking after the victory of DB. If it's anyone's fault though it's mine for not making sure there was something occur myself. So my apologizes to Foul Play and Dying Breed there.

-- This is probably my biggest issue with how Asylum does results. Some Matches, even some of the opening bouts deserve a bigger write up. Maybe not full 9-10 page write ups but something more than a couple of paragraphs. With AJP and CK I wanted more there but knew it was suppose to be summarized. The Tag Match with Marv/Atken Vs. Pillars needed more there! If anything for the story to show that Big names were involved. Just my own thing really, I looked forward to more than what this Tag Match was..

[T-Marv]

Apr 22, 2013 16:04:21 GMT -4 Jason Cashe said:

-- This is probably my biggest issue with how Asylum does results. Some Matches, even some of the opening bouts deserve a bigger write up. Maybe not full 9-10 page write ups but something more than a couple of paragraphs. With AJP and CK I wanted more there but knew it was suppose to be summarized. The Tag Match with Marv/Atken Vs. Pillars needed more there! If anything for the story to show that Big names were involved. Just my own thing really, I looked forward to more than what this Tag Match was..

I actually go back and forth on this. I LOVE that Asylum has summarized matches! It makes the show easier to read without feeling exhausting. I think Overdrive should adopt the same philospohy. I think shorter show matches make the Main Event and PPV matches REALLY pop.

That said, I can see your point Kash. Sometimes you just wanna see more, ya know? So I'm on both sides of that coin.

[T-Marv]

Apr 22, 2013 14:30:52 GMT -4 The Main Attraction said:

Apr 22, 2013 9:17:02 GMT -4 T-Marv said:

Alright, feedback coming while I read the show.

So my feeling everytime I see a Mannie segment is… “WTF is this trying to accomplish?” Sometimes I really like Mannie’s stuff, and sometimes it just drags on for the point of dragging on. I love the big POP TJ gets when he comes to shut him up at the end. It was awesome and actually made the segment bearable.

Well I appreciate all feedback but this kinda cuts a bit, I did actually come up with 90% of the segment and with Biggs finishing the ending. Now personally I felt I did what was needed without missing the point which I believe is something that you did. Mannie is currently about to grace GQ magazine and the night was suppose to be the unveiling, but he felt that he wasn't receiving the admiration as he had hope for so it prompt to walk away; but not with TJ answering Mannie's attack from the week prior. Which resulted in the brawl and ruin unveiling.

Now when you were referring to the flow of my segment, well let's be honest when are celebration segments in pro wrestling not long? Exactly so that means my segment isn't unbearable, maybe it didn't catch your interest but saying it almost unbearable is a bit much. I did what I was suppose to do, I sold my socialite status, I sold TJ, and I sold Mayhem. Case close.

No need to get defensive man.

I just said it drug on, not that it was bad. IF you condensed it it would have been a VERY good piece. IT would have made it better.

Isn't that the point of Feedback to make things better? So don't throw it in my face.

Celebrations are supposed to be long, yes... when they're wrestling related! (title wins, etc). BUt this was a CD fluff piece that had nothing to do with wrestling... And I felt that condensed it would have worked better.

I doubt I'm the only one who feels that way, but if I am...then it's just my personal opinion. I'm just trying to help...

You got to where you are by listening to feedback... don't take a step backwards.

[The Smooth One]

-- William D. Williams had a weird moment right before the 6 Man Tag. TJ at ringside, GOOCH with Dying Breed carrying chairs! It was wild but confusing. I felt like Sam Beckett on Quantum Leap when he arrived in a new identity. I felt this was placed wrong at first but I'm not sure it was. Just a misunderstanding I believe?[code]

Yes it was..It was actually supposed to be placed between the intros to the tag team match and Lively's bag stage seg.... as an pre cursor to that match.  

I am not sure this is an issue and I know I know this is make believe, but if WDWJ has had a dozen matches in APW...he has been spit on a number of times.  What is it with the spitting in peoples faces?  I have been watching WWF/E WCW/NWA TNA..ECW WCCW..whatever..I don't remember spitting on people being common place?  Just a had to say it.



[Jason Cashe]

Someone spit on you? I missed that...

[The Main Attraction]

Apr 22, 2013 16:24:56 GMT -4 T-Marv said:

Apr 22, 2013 14:30:52 GMT -4 The Main Attraction said:

Well I appreciate all feedback but this kinda cuts a bit, I did actually come up with 90% of the segment and with Biggs finishing the ending. Now personally I felt I did what was needed without missing the point which I believe is something that you did. Mannie is currently about to grace GQ magazine and the night was suppose to be the unveiling, but he felt that he wasn't receiving the admiration as he had hope for so it prompt to walk away; but not with TJ answering Mannie's attack from the week prior. Which resulted in the brawl and ruin unveiling.

Now when you were referring to the flow of my segment, well let's be honest when are celebration segments in pro wrestling not long? Exactly so that means my segment isn't unbearable, maybe it didn't catch your interest but saying it almost unbearable is a bit much. I did what I was suppose to do, I sold my socialite status, I sold TJ, and I sold Mayhem. Case close.

No need to get defensive man.

I just said it drug on, not that it was bad. IF you condensed it it would have been a VERY good piece. IT would have made it better.

Isn't that the point of Feedback to make things better? So don't throw it in my face.

Celebrations are supposed to be long, yes... when they're wrestling related! (title wins, etc). BUt this was a CD fluff piece that had nothing to do with wrestling... And I felt that condensed it would have worked better.

I doubt I'm the only one who feels that way, but if I am...then it's just my personal opinion. I'm just trying to help...

You got to where you are by listening to feedback... don't take a step backwards.

Thanks T-Marv & I'm cool dude I wasn't being really too defensive, sorry if it felt like that I was just feeding back on your comments and as I said I appreciate it. I see where you going though, I will try my best to condese things from here on, I think I was trying my best not too do quick style segs because I wanted to keep people's attention.

["The Real Deal" Ellis Graham]

So this was my first Asylum, but since I feel like I'm hoping I get drafted by the A instead of the O, I wanted to watch & provide feedback.

-First of all, it was all in all a great show.

-I really liked WDW's promo putting himself into the Gauntlet. Him assuming TJ said yes is the kind of thing that should happen more often in WWE (instead of what they would do, which would be the champ coming out needlessly to say the same thing).

-I liked the Young Mannie segment. Was it long? Yes, but that was the heelish thing to do. Like was previously said, the length of the segment just made TJ's interruption that much bigger. Wouldn't have wanted it cropped at all. Mannie wanted to rub in his moment, so it made sense. I'm not saying it was on the level of Jericho's notorious "1004 Holds" promo, but I felt like that was the direction he was taking, and I loved it.

-While right now the AJP/CK/KJE/LA love square(?) seems confusing, I am crossing my fingers for a four-way match for the Suicidal title coming out of this, which would be a HUGE addition to Mayhem.

-I agree that Bailey extending the beatdown post match would've been the right call in hindsight. Yes he's a face (and I'm about to get to my take on alignment) but Bailey has shown me that he's not Lawful Good like Gooch so I think Bailey "letting his frustration get the best of him" wouldn't have been out of character for him nor would it have turned off the audience.

-I definitely agree that there's a lot of gray area on alignment, and I do think it hurts the product a little bit. I think the best solution is to make these things a little more black and white, and then people can make their decision.

For example, the AJP/CK vs KJE thing. Evans is a heel, I think, but she's now involved with a black&white feud over Kane's betrayal. There's clear sides and you root for who you think is good in this case.

Another example is Raab jumping Reginald again. I disagree that it's overdone; Raab needed it after his heat was muddled for the sake of Mannie's in his match (what I mean is that YM doing what YM did got Raab sympathy, which is great for Mannie's heel character, but not for Raab's). Raab's attack reinforced him as a bully who beats up on the GM because he wants an easier fight (Idk if that's the point, but I still see Raab as a big heel so it still works).

Going forward with this, I like that Kash didn't rescue Evans. He's a heel. Saving KJE = face turn.



Maybe I'm way off base, but that's my honest opinion.

[The Smooth One]

Apr 22, 2013 16:40:44 GMT -4 Jason Cashe said:

Someone spit on you? I missed that...

Not only does he spit in my face...he runs!!! LOL

Lively throws out his arms as if asking the man to come get some. WDWJ obliges by stepping forward, Lively back pedals a bit now waving him on. The Smoth One stops dead center in the ring now throwing his arms up as Lively has kept distance. The JESUS mouths off a bit then spits in the face of the Smooth One before taging in Jason Kash rapidly. Lively slides out of the ring as Williams lunges at him

[T-Marv]

Apr 22, 2013 19:56:01 GMT -4 The Smooth One said:

Apr 22, 2013 16:40:44 GMT -4 Jason Cashe said:

Someone spit on you? I missed that...

Not only does he spit in my face...he runs!!! LOL

Lively throws out his arms as if asking the man to come get some. WDWJ obliges by stepping forward, Lively back pedals a bit now waving him on. The Smoth One stops dead center in the ring now throwing his arms up as Lively has kept distance. The JESUS mouths off a bit then spits in the face of the Smooth One before taging in Jason Kash rapidly. Lively slides out of the ring as Williams lunges at him

That happens TOO much in ewrestling period.

But that is just the consequence of Wanting to come off a certain way and doing it.

I'm sure no disrespect was meant... but yeah it happens too much

[Your JESUS]

Well honestly it wasn't meant as disrespect to you. It was Lively a heel who pushes the limits disrespecting your character then turning the heel move and bailing. I didn't realize it would be looked at so negatively, my bad. I also did it in hopes to build something with WDWJ and Lively possibly to build off of...sorry you were upset by it.

[The Smooth One]

No offense taken...I understand....it is very disrespectful and Lively being Lively and it worked.!..can you at least eat less garlic before you spit on me? Thanks!

[Jason Cashe]

I think I've written in someone spitting on someone more recently. Can't remember who or what match even. Man my short term memory SUCKS sometimes..

[Jules]

I think I wrote a spitting spot a while ago, might even have been Kash spitting on somebody...possibly Bailey. I don't see what the big deal is, it's a way for a heel to generate heat. It's like saying a heel winning through cheating happens too much.

In my eyes, it made perfect sense for a prick like Lively to do this---- to anyone! Even his own mother.

[Lord Raab]

Hell even Stefan has been spitting on a lot of people as well lately on Asylum with President Jeff and Reginald Schmidt.

[The Smooth One]

Let me find out APW is full of spitters! I myself prefer the face slap!

[Michael Jennings]

Maybe someone should book a spitball match at some point with all of this spitting going on.

[The Main Attraction]

Who knew spit could cause so much controversy?

[Anthony Bailey]

Apr 22, 2013 21:28:17 GMT -4 Jules said:

I think I wrote a spitting spot a while ago, might even have been Kash spitting on somebody...possibly Bailey. I don't see what the big deal is, it's a way for a heel to generate heat. It's like saying a heel winning through cheating happens too much.

In my eyes, it made perfect sense for a prick like Lively to do this---- to anyone! Even his own mother.

Kash spit on me during last Asylum's tag team match with Hopkins and Reaver I think. His spit is nastier too in my opinion because by him not having his two front teeth, the quantity of the spit ends up being more since there's no teeth there to block it. E-Wrestling imagination 101 right there people...

[Jason Cashe]

You put too much thought into that Bailey...

Personal opinion on Spitting? I'd almost murder someone for the offense. It's as low as you can get in disrespect outside of slapping someone's Momma.