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Post by brandenharvey on Jun 20, 2011 11:14:41 GMT -4
I agree with Sally, man. Explain thyself.
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Nova
Ring Crew
Posts: 40
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Post by Nova on Jun 20, 2011 19:20:48 GMT -4
Being new do you really think they would give me the complex role of the killer? I barely know how to play and the only reason I know any terms is because of Pence, my room-mate, who fills me in on stuff. Like when to look deeper into what is going on. Jeff is dead, but why would I kill Jeff? Sure he is experienced, but if I was the killer why wouldn't I target T-marv? T-marv has more experience than I do...so, the bigger question is why is T-marv so quick to react to me? To me that comes off scum. So...I guess I will vote T-Marv as it seems like he has something to hide.
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Nova
Ring Crew
Posts: 40
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Post by Nova on Jun 20, 2011 19:21:04 GMT -4
Vote-T-Marv
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Post by brandenharvey on Jun 20, 2011 19:33:24 GMT -4
Nova, roles are random. I don't like the "I'm new. I can't be scum" rationalization.
Vote: Nova
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Post by SalTal on Jun 21, 2011 2:23:45 GMT -4
The roles are random, Nova. And besides, you seem to be making a scapegoat out of TMarv not being killed. I mean, you say that it would have been smarter to kill TMarv because he has more experience? Jeff has more experience than you as well ... and he's dead.
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Post by T-Marv on Jun 21, 2011 8:53:32 GMT -4
Really?
You used the old "Well, he went after me so I'm going to vote him" approach.
Your play has been scummy since your very first post...and you've said things over and over that make me feel that you are scum.
Then, Last night, I used my role to get a little more information about you. And while it didn't prove that you're scum, it did prove that you're a suspicious character. And when asked to explain yourself, you simply pass the blame on to me... that's a sign of a VERY inexperianced Scum.
Vote: Nova
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Post by SalTal on Jun 21, 2011 9:12:03 GMT -4
I'd be voting for you here, Nova, but I want to give you achance to explain yourself. Also, I wouldn't mind hearing from some other people before someone puts you one away from a lynch.
But if you can't provide some reasoning, and no one speaks up ...
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Post by Blade on Jun 21, 2011 9:55:03 GMT -4
6 alive, 4 to lynch
2 - Nova (Branden, tmarv)
1 - tmarv (Nova)
(not voting) Sally, Nunez, Rebel
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Post by Johnny Rebel on Jun 21, 2011 11:03:11 GMT -4
It's easy to get defensive when you're being accused - but is the only reason you're voting to lynch TMarv because he voted for you? Or do you know something that the rest of us don't?
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Nova
Ring Crew
Posts: 40
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Post by Nova on Jun 21, 2011 18:42:48 GMT -4
Its just how fast T-Marv was willing to hit me over the head that gives me a weird feeling about whether he is town or scum. Apparently I was also scummy from my very first post, but if I remember correctly my very first post put a vote to someone I thought was inactive due to what Pence had told me involving a few people not adding much, but in the end being scum at the end of the last game he played.. How that comes off as scum? I don't know. And in the end I was persuaded to take my vote away. Once again, that must have come off scummy too! These are the marks of inexperience and not the marks of some one with something to hide. But you can go ahead and lynch me, I'm sure everyone will be all, but thrilled with you in the end killing a town, while you sit in the shadows planning to take some one else to take more heat off yourself.
But if you want to go ahead and gamble on T-Marv not being the scum, be my guess...I'm sure that the free kill that the killer got last night will only be heightened when you guys are down another two town this week.
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Post by SalTal on Jun 22, 2011 1:58:06 GMT -4
Vote: Nova
I said I would hold off until you said something, and what you said hasn't convinced me that you're not scum. Your contrasting between inexperience and scum isn't enough, in my opinion. You also seemed to throw a vote at TMarv for no real reason - not much of an inexperience move but more of a bandwagon move to get some attention off you and onto him.
With only Rebel and Nunez to vote (and Nunez likely not to due to connection problems, if I remember correctly) your fate is in their hands (unless you still manage to present a reason why you're not scum, in which case I'm more than happy to unvote you).
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Post by Blade on Jun 22, 2011 6:13:38 GMT -4
6 alive, 4 to lynch
3 - Nova (Branden, tmarv, Sally)
1 - tmarv (Nova)
(not voting) Nunez, Rebel
DEADLINE WILL BE AY 12PM EST 23RD JUNE
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Post by Johnny Rebel on Jun 22, 2011 8:37:08 GMT -4
T-Marv was willing to hit you over the head because of your scummy comments at the beginning of the game. However, I'm not willing yet to put the final nail in the coffin just yet. I would like to see a T-Marv response to Nova's comments.
The "I'm a townie, don't lynch me" excuse is a tired one though. If you have useful information, I suggest you come out with it quickly!
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Post by T-Marv on Jun 22, 2011 10:48:18 GMT -4
It's MORE than just his scummy comments at the beginning of the game.
I said that Nova has a night action. I said that he used it last night and it made him suspicious. I don't know what info I'm alowed to give out that wouldn't brake the rules.
It's not 100% that he's scum...though given my role, I know that he had the opertunity to kill Jeff Last night. Let's just say that he visited Jeff Last night...and now Jeff's dead. Hope I'm alowed to say that.
I can't really explain it any better than that without roleclaiming. But he visited Jeff last night...so it's a better than fair guess that he's Scum!
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Post by Johnny Rebel on Jun 22, 2011 11:41:07 GMT -4
That's all I need.
VOTE: Nova
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Post by Blade on Jun 22, 2011 17:33:38 GMT -4
Vote count
4- Nova (rebel, tmarv,sally, branden)
1- tmarv - Nova
The town had spent most of their day going back and forth, but it was Nova who was clearly set in their sights. Tmarv was the first to grab him, but it was Rebel who stuck in the boot.
Dead
Nova - Whistler - Town Roleblocker
Alive
T Marv
Sally
Branden
Rebel
Nunez
dead
Jeff - Dr. Karen Johnson- Town doctor
Nova - Whistler - Town roleblocker
YOU HAVE 36 HOURS TO SEND IN ALL NIGHT ACTIONS
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Post by Blade on Jun 25, 2011 8:35:29 GMT -4
With Whistler out of the way, the night should be alot more eventful. The dark skies cried out with thunder and lightning as a shadow lurked in the background. It wasn't long before he struck.
Dead - T-Marv - Dragonetti - Hated Townperson
________________________________________________
Alive
Sally
Branden
Rebel
Nunez
dead
Jeff - Dr. Karen Johnson- Town doctor
Nova - Whistler - Town roleblocker
T-Marv - Dragonetti - Hated Townperson
DAY 3 BEGINS
WITH 4 ALIVE ITS 3 TO LYNCH
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Jesse Nuñez™
Semi-Main Eventer
"Speak of the Devil and he shall appear."[F4:JesseNunez]
Posts: 575
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Post by Jesse Nuñez™ on Jun 25, 2011 23:33:49 GMT -4
Holy smokes! Alright guys we have 3 down now, we really need to pick it up now more than ever to get these scumbags! But hey (story-game wise) at least it was the hated townie that bit the dust. Lol okay joke aside back to this.
I really want to go to Branden as scum but in this game he hasn't said anything that made him appear scummy! Then again that might be his strategy this time around and what do you know it worked as he is still in.
However I like to point out you guys voted for Nova to be lynched while I was gone for a few days and he turned out to be town and it didn't help that T-Marv used his night role to find suspicion on Nova, now they are both dead and both townie. But T-Marv's comments only seemed to persuade Rebel for that final vote to lynch. So I don't think Rebel is scum if he was relying on a townie's input on somebody to vote that he trusted to be a townie. But I also think he is scum using someone else word to put away a townie to make it seem like he is going with the popular vote making it easy for him to get rid of the townies. I'm thinking more of the 2nd option as the easy option was set up for him perfectly.
That being said I'd like to take a look at Sally and Branden. First Sally, well it sucks cause she used what I said earlier on in the game against Nova to her advantage and kinda hit Nova with a series of jabs to help put him away. However she did give him a chance to explain himself and said she would happily remove her vote from Nova but he failed to convince her of the truth that probably being because he was still learning of the game but nonetheless you got to do better to convince a jury of your innocence. So bottom line I don't think it's Sally.
Like I said earlier, Branden has not given me anything to make me assume he is scum so its still hard to put my radar on him, but I'm going to need to hear more from Branden as when he does post he posts as little as possible.
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Post by brandenharvey on Jun 26, 2011 0:29:36 GMT -4
I really want to go to Branden as scum Why? Branden has not given me anything to make me assume he is scum Then why do you want to point me out as such? I haven't said anything scummy because I have learned how to play the game. You have to be careful what you say, even when you're town, because, otherwise, you'll be lynched. My question is, why do you want to point me out as possible scum when, by your own admission, you have no reason to? |
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Post by SalTal on Jun 26, 2011 1:14:04 GMT -4
Ok guys, let's not rush into things. We made a bad mistake before, so let's not rush into another. We should break things down, like you did Jesse.
I'll start with myself first, seeings how you wanted to take a closer look at me. In the first round, I abstained because, well, there was no compelling case at all. Then when the second did, Nova's action PLUS the case that TMarv PLUS my own suspicions led me to vote for Nova. Even taking one of the votes for Nova as being the scummer and my vote as a townie, there's still two other people who believed the same as me. So if we scrutinize all of them, that would be a start. That's what you wanted to do, Jesse, and I think that's the best place to start.
Who started it? Branden.
Who finished it? Rebel.
TMarv was the heaviest on Nova, I'd say. And I'd have thought TMarv was scum if he hadn't got killed last night. But then, I think we need to look at who was fueling TMarv's fire knowing that he was going after a townie. now I readily accept that I threw suspicion on Nova, but I never said I was convinced until after Nova couldn't really provide a breakdown of why we all thought he was scummy. And you're right, Jesse, I gave him a chance and then even said my vote wasn't locked in if someone could convince me otherwise.
Now I accept that we were wrong about Nova and that I shouldn't voted fir him if I wasn't completely sure. But f Rebel wasn't are either, his vote was far more important and weighty seeings how he was the last one. So without accusing you of much: Rebel, I'd like to hear your reasoning for the game so far.
Brandon, you have popped up every round in as much as suspicion, though no real votes. I think your gameplay is different this time around. Maybe you're just trying to be a more successful player or maybe your scum and it's forced you to change, it's hard to say with my little experience as well, but I would think the latter might be more applicable for another rookie.
With that said, you get extremely defensive when you are accused. I think the more innocent way would be to logically explain things through - like what Jesse did and what I'm hopefully doing now.
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Jesse Nuñez™
Semi-Main Eventer
"Speak of the Devil and he shall appear."[F4:JesseNunez]
Posts: 575
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Post by Jesse Nuñez™ on Jun 26, 2011 2:30:25 GMT -4
I really want to go to Branden as scum Why? Branden has not given me anything to make me assume he is scum Then why do you want to point me out as such? I haven't said anything scummy because I have learned how to play the game. You have to be careful what you say, even when you're town, because, otherwise, you'll be lynched. My question is, why do you want to point me out as possible scum when, by your own admission, you have no reason to? Did you read everything else that I posted or just stopped there? I said I really wanted to go with you as scum as in a go to hopefully he is scum but you haven't done anything to make me think you were scum so therefore you are not scum in my eyes. |
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Jesse Nuñez™
Semi-Main Eventer
"Speak of the Devil and he shall appear."[F4:JesseNunez]
Posts: 575
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Post by Jesse Nuñez™ on Jun 26, 2011 2:42:27 GMT -4
Now I accept that we were wrong about Nova and that I shouldn't voted fir him if I wasn't completely sure. But f Rebel wasn't are either, his vote was far more important and weighty seeings how he was the last one. So without accusing you of much: Rebel, I'd like to hear your reasoning for the game so far. Brandon, you have popped up every round in as much as suspicion, though no real votes. I think your gameplay is different this time around. Maybe you're just trying to be a more successful player or maybe your scum and it's forced you to change, it's hard to say with my little experience as well, but I would think the latter might be more applicable for another rookie. With that said, you get extremely defensive when you are accused. I think the more innocent way would be to logically explain things through - like what Jesse did and what I'm hopefully doing now. I agree with these paragraphs. I believe Rebel has some explaining to do. You could have held off on a vote as I made my return back home and as I got on to a computer finally but it was too late as there was a lynch and I had no say. If you would have held off I could've given my 2 cents in to the situation and maybe got a different result. Now seeing as T-Marv had explained that he had some type of night role that allowed him to do something he could have used it against you to point you out on something you didn't want us to know (scum). |
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Post by SalTal on Jun 26, 2011 6:23:56 GMT -4
Ok, so I've spent the last ... however long going back over the game. We're at a very precarious point, and throwing around random accusations only leads to more 'Nova's (see: Townies) getting killed. We have to be logical and straightforward here. What evidence do we have, and why are we suspicious of some people. I think if everyone is as open as they can be, then it will be more obvious who the scum is (because they won't be open or honest and will be twisting things around that people will be able to pick up). So maybe if people start laying out their reasons, then we'll have something to go with? So, in the effort of being open, the vast majority of my suspicion lies with Rebel. For better or worse, that's who I've got the most questions about. And, because of this, I would hope that everyone looks at Rebel as well. Of course, everyone should look at me at the same time (no one is above suspicion) but I think this case against Rebel is pretty straightforward. The first real contribution from Rebel was a vote for Brandon. Why? Because he thought that Branden's joke vote was guilt enough: There is something to be said for the person who throws the first accusation. I think we owe it to ourselves to at least check him out. Vote: BrandenBut then, when it looks like the bandwagon has really worked, Rebel starts to play the whole thing off as a joke: The fact he's begging Jeff to spoon with him doesn't set off a red flag? Then Rebel starts an all new bandwagon when the heat starts getting directed at Nova, like, four posts later. In fact, he was the first person to really start pointing the finger at Nova back in the first round (I removed his quoting of me): I'm struggling with Nova's comments. If Nunez was scum, he would have added to the tally as Sally says. Or Nova could just be fishing for more information? It makes little sense if he's up to something to just vote for Branden and speed up his indictment. Maybe he's spreading blame so it takes longer to lynch and more information to pop up as he ponders his next move? Like, it's just interesting to see that Rebel threw up a serious vote on Branden, then turned it into a joke, then threw up serious accusations against Nova. I understand that the early rounds, you have little to go with. But that's a lot of flip-flopping. And it wasn't consistent. I mean, Rebel, you went after Branden with little evidence, then went off him. But then you went onto Nova and never got off him when there was as little evidence to lynch him. Even at this early stage, TMarv had suspicions about Rebel, so much so that he couldn't even make a decision which side Rebel was: Rebel - Playing an aggressive game. Hard to tell if that's good or bad. Towards the end of the first round, Rebel even kept his vote for Branden. Everyone else had unvoted him, and yet Rebel kept it there: I'm keeping my vote for Branden. He might be playing his typical game or he might be innocent; but throwing the first dart is always cause for concern, IMO. It's the classic sign of a guilty conscience to cast the first stone. What's curious is that it's now back to being a serious vote on Branden, that he's gone back to his original reason that he voted first, therefore he must be scum. I don't get how that works. What was even more telling was this comment by Jeff afterwards: Rebel keeping his vote on Branden after everyone else cancelled their votes could be a scummy move in him trying to get a lynch Jeff started to have questions about Rebel as well. With enough distance between then and now, I'm not sure that comment isn't close to home. I mean, we all expect Branden to put his foot in his mouth and do something silly that gets everyone suspicious about him. By keeping his vote on him in that round, Rebel only needed 3 people to jump on, instead of 4 if he had unvoted him. Now he took a risk staying on Branden, and when confronted by it (through Jeff's post) he came out with this: Or I just refuse to play this whishy washy game of nominating someone then backtracking. Simply put (no pun intended) the first person to sling an accusation normally has something to hide. Been my argument from the beginning and will continue to be so until I have other reason to believe Branden is innocent.  Sure, it was your argument at the beginning, Rebel, but it wasn't a consistently held one. You blamed Branden's random, creepy remarks as being a reason to get rid of him. Now not everyone was convinced, so keeping your vote on him might have been a way to not only make the require votes on Branden less, but also to keep people wondering about Branden. Because one person is convinced, it automatically means people start to wonder why he's convinced. And this would take attention off certain others (like yourself, which is what I think happened in that first round). Then the conversation turned into weighing up a lynch or not. And you went strangely quiet, Rebel. Considering you were the one with a vote on Branden, I would have thought you'd have actually make a compelling case to lynch rather than not lynch. Then came the night phase. And at this stage we had: Jeff: Had questions about you. TMarv: Had questions about you. (Probably) the two most experienced people in the game, and they were looking at you. Now, I'm assuming it was impossible for both to get killed, if you were scum you would have had to pick the person who had the most suspicion about you. And who was that? Jeff. And he ends up dead. Then in round two, TMarv was in first. He put aside the suspicion he had for you and, instead went for Nova. I joined him because I thought that the fact Jesse hadn't been killed (harking back to the go-between on Jesse and Nova, and how the situation was perfect for Nova to kill Jesse if he was scum). Also, Nova threw a rather unjustified and random vote on TMarv (likely our most experienced player by now). TMarv really thought he was onto something, and I thought that there were role results floating about which made it more compelling (especially the fact that TMarv knew that Nova had a role and he hadn't saved Jeff). I made my questions known about Nova but I was very weak initially. I said that I wouldn't vote if he could explain. And even when I did vote for Nova, I was always open to taking my vote off. By this point, when the bandwagon had been started and there were 2 (nearly 3) votes on Nova, Rebel comes in with pretty much a rehashing of what TMarv, Branden and I had been saying: It's easy to get defensive when you're being accused - but is the only reason you're voting to lynch TMarv because he voted for you? Or do you know something that the rest of us don't? I voted after Nova tried to defend himself against everyone. So that put it at 3 votes with only 1 more to go. Rebel, you then said: T-Marv was willing to hit you over the head because of your scummy comments at the beginning of the game. However, I'm not willing yet to put the final nail in the coffin just yet. I would like to see a T-Marv response to Nova's comments. The "I'm a townie, don't lynch me" excuse is a tired one though. If you have useful information, I suggest you come out with it quickly! What is interesting is you said you wanted to see a response from TMarv and get Nova to put out some useful information ... but you only actually waited for TMarv to post his reply and then you said: That's all I need. VOTE: Nova TMarv's comments were exactly what you needed. They gave you something to hide behind and something to point towards as a defense. And that's all you did need to get a town lynched, because the very next post: Nova is lynched and turns up town. I imagine that the you would come into the third round then saying that you had only followed TMarv (which, admittedly, I am sort of doing. But it's obvious I had my own reasons for questioning Nova). But it's very important to remember this from the previous round: Jeff and TMarv were the two that were most suspicious of you. Jeff had been killed overnight, so he wasn't a problem. But going into the third round ... you had been the final vote ... Nova turns up town ... TMarv is going to go back. And he's going to go over all this with a fine-tooth comb. And he will remember that you were suspect from the beginning as well. So how do you get rid of this problem as well? Kill TMarv overnight. Now we're into round 3, and I guess there's not enough to hide behind. I mean, everyone leaves a trail of some kind - scum and town. If we look at Nova, his trail is quite clear and rookie-ish. That's what fooled a lot of us I'm guessing. But Rebel's trail is something completely different. Again, I'll give Rebel time to refute all this before I cast my vote. I wouldn't even vote for Rebel without him having a chance to go over all this. This is all of my evidence and reasoning to suspect you, Rebel. I would like to know what Branden and Jesse think as well. |
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Post by SalTal on Jun 26, 2011 6:25:23 GMT -4
Sorry, there's a typo up there which I would go and edit, but I'm not allowed. Where it says:
"like the bandwagon has really worked"
It should read:
"like the bandwagon hasn't really worked"
Sorry guys.
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Post by Johnny Rebel on Jun 26, 2011 13:53:17 GMT -4
To respond to these allegations:
It wasn't much of a joke vote as Harvey starts picking with Jeff and who's the first one to turn up dead? President Jeff. Not sure how Branden skated free with that one but it didn't look like such a joke a few days later. You then claim I was wishy-washed and not consistent; however, I claimed from the beginning that whoever throws the first punch is usually guilty and that was Branden. I kept that vote even though everyone else was jumping off the bandwagon. How's that for consistency?
If you would have actually read what happened rather than looking for what you wanted, you would have seen that TMarv was the one who first pointed Nova out:
To which you quickly joined in:
MODIFIED TO FIX QUOTE CODE ERROR.
Your remarks about me killing off the most experienced doesn't hold any water. If I was gunning for them, why wouldn't I have taken out TMarv as well? He, himself, was unsure of my role in all of this yet chose to not make a play for me as the killer. Why is that? Because I have nothing to hide and I am simply gaining as much information as possible still.
In the case against Nova, I had all the information I needed. It is evident that TMarv had already spent time investigating Nova for a crime - how much more info do you need? It seemed like that was enough for you to vote as well as it wasn't long after TMarv's spilling of information that you cast your vote.
I have nothing to hide behind. I've been collecting information and voting accordingly.
I don't know who is scum and who isn't at this point but all I know is despite Sally's best efforts to pain me in a negative light, I've played a consistent game and when I've had a gut feeling about someone, I've stayed that way.
The one who has some explaining to do is Nunez. You conveniently disappear when a vote comes up and then wait until after a death has occurred to stomp your feet and cry foul. Typical scum move: let someone else nail the final nail in the coffin and then point your finger after the dust has settled. Then you start throwing out accusations towards Harvey for no apparent reason other than to start stirring up some scummy mud-throwing.
Why Branden? Do you know something that we don't know about him?
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Post by brandenharvey on Jun 26, 2011 15:42:33 GMT -4
Sally makes a compelling arguement with her roleplay. She made Rebel seem like scum BUT I believe she may be wrong. I believe Rebel is just inexperienced at the game. Now, about me getting "defensive," I wasn't. I just wanted to know why Jesse said I was probably scum while, at the same time, saying he has no reason to think I'm scum. Talk about being inconsistent. Rebel, I wouldn't be stupid enough to kill Jeff with a NK the night after I voted for him, if I was scum. I always vote for Jeff with my first post. It's my thing. Just saying. |
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Jesse Nuñez™
Semi-Main Eventer
"Speak of the Devil and he shall appear."[F4:JesseNunez]
Posts: 575
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Post by Jesse Nuñez™ on Jun 27, 2011 0:08:11 GMT -4
The one who has some explaining to do is Nunez. You conveniently disappear when a vote comes up and then wait until after a death has occurred to stomp your feet and cry foul. Typical scum move: let someone else nail the final nail in the coffin and then point your finger after the dust has settled. Then you start throwing out accusations towards Harvey for no apparent reason other than to start stirring up some scummy mud-throwing. Why Branden? Do you know something that we don't know about him? I also conveniently said I was going out of town and away from my computer, you know to enjoy a vacation. But if going to Six Flags and having a good time is scummy then I'm pretty sure we need to ban theme parks from this world. I already explained to everyone including you that I did come back well before the deadline to transition into a night phase but not back fast enough before YOU decided to go ahead and go with a lynch which brought the night phase early. I didn't force you to vote for Nova. You voted and sealed his fate, not me. I told you if you would have held off on your vote I could have said something but it does not matter now because you were so sure that Nova was scum. Obviously you either have horrible judgment or you are killing two birds with one stone by getting a lynch then killing T-Marv at night. I have yet to vote on an actual lynch. Why? Because I refuse to have someone's innocent blood on my hands. I'm not entirely sure on who is scum but so far your recent actions and comments have gotten me to believe that you are scum. You guys need to understand when I say "I want to call Branden a scum" is not saying "I believe Branden is a scum." I mean really it is not difficult to understand. I'm saying that given Branden's past experience in this game he acts and usually is scum. Not this game. However as in my tone saying "I want to call Branden scum" I'm saying it as in an act of just going with it and I don't care what the consequence is. Like if I walked 200 miles in one day I would say "Somebody just cut off my legs so I don't have to walk anymore." In reality I don't want someone to cut off my legs, that would really hurt and suck. Thus me saying "Branden hasn't given me anything to make him scum." I'm not calling him scum and taking it back I'm saying I just want to get this over with and go with the easy way out, but I don't want to that is why I wasn't pushing for Harvey as scum. Understand? No, I'll wait for you two to figure it out. Do we understand now? You sure? Positive? Okay. Now Rebel your case about you not going after T-Marv cause he's a skilled player does NOT hold any water. He was killed off in a night phase right after you put the rope around Nova's neck and pushed the chair off from underneath him. You only needed T-Marv long enough to get a few more townies out with lynches. Then you would go slowly after Sally and I since this is only our 2nd game where our first one we didn't finish. So basically we are just as inexperienced as you are. Like Sally said, T-Marv's comments is what you needed for your defense when Nova came out townie. You thought it couldn't be your fault that T-Marv said Nova was scum I was only going by popular decision. And T-Marv didn't go after you because you were just convincing for a little bit, enough to get the heat off of you and onto Nova. Which you did and you were quite happy to give the final vote. |
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Post by SalTal on Jun 27, 2011 7:38:48 GMT -4
Let's just slow down guys. I really think that the more meticulous (see: detailed) we are, the better off we are. I mean, if we go fast, we could miss a crucial detail that the scum wants us to miss. I think Jesse and I have been pretty thought out and detailed so far, so I would hope that Branden and Rebel would do the same. Rebel, was give you the reasons as to why I thought you were suspicious. I think it's pretty scummy for you to accuse me of picking out select quotes and bits fo information with this comment: If you would have actually read what happened rather than looking for what you wanted, you would have seen that TMarv was the one who first pointed Nova out But I find it exceptionally scummy for you to accuse me of not be diligent. You tried to turn the heat back on me by accusing me of having tried to just gone after you with my quite rational and logical post. I'll break it down for everyone to make sure that we are doing this slow and detailed. I said: Then in round two, TMarv was in first. He put aside the suspicion he had for you and, instead went for Nova. Then you said (quoted before): If you would have actually read what happened rather than looking for what you wanted, you would have seen that TMarv was the one who first pointed Nova out The truth? I actually did look at the whole context and I did actually acknowledge that TMarv was in first. That's pretty scummy of you to accuse me of doing something I didn't. Like I said, the scum would be shown in the detail and by breaking things down into the clear and logical chain of events. I did that, and you didn't Rebel. You've tried to paint me as having some sort of ulterior motive or (subtly) trying to start a bandwagon on you. Both your efforts are lies, going by what I had clearly posted. I haven't hidden away from the fact that I voted for Nova. In fact, I was the first of the people who voted to lynch to acknowledge that we made a big mistake and that the pace of the game should slow, and the thoroughness of our investigations should increase. You don't seem so worried that we all rushed into something. I could understand you not being worried if you were scum, but also if you were trying to offload the blame for being the last nail in the coffin. I will refer you to Jesse as to my defense for killing off TMarv because he is experienced, specifically (quotes have only been modified so as to remove superflous information): Now Rebel your case about you not going after T-Marv cause he's a skilled player does NOT hold any water. He was killed off in a night phase right after you put the rope around Nova's neck and pushed the chair off from underneath him. You only needed T-Marv long enough to get a few more townies out with lynches. Then you would go slowly after Sally and I T-Marv's comments is what you needed for your defense when Nova came out townie. And T-Marv didn't go after you because you were just convincing for a little bit, enough to get the heat off of you and onto Nova. Which you did and you were quite happy to give the final vote. I would also like to add that after Nova turned up town, there would be an experienced player, who is quite good with investigating people and picking up on the minutiae that revels a scum. After you/the scum had got the townie lynched, it was really a question of who you/the scum kill overnight. Do you/the scum go for one of the other inexperienced people, and leave a good investigator in the game who had already suspected you/the scum or do you/the scum eliminate the biggest threat here and hope that you have enough cover with all the rookies in the game to create chaos? I look at it, and it would be easy to play the rookies off each other. You have Jesse, and you could blame him for not being around much. You have Branden, who gets defensive and has been suspect since the start. And you have me, who has been quite forward and open since the start. 3 approaches to the game that all have their own faults. And we can all see that each of us has been blamed by you in this way pretty much. One final comment of yours, Rebel, that I find most interesting is this: I've played a consistent game and when I've had a gut feeling about someone, I've stayed that way. The thing is, I pointed out how you weren't necessarily consistent in the first round. Then when it came to Nova, something similarly contradictory to your consistent statement happend: - Either you had a gut feeling, but waited until TMarv had thrown out enough cover for you to put the final vote on Nova - which means you didn't stick with you gut, or; - You never had a gut feeling, but voted for Nova anyway - which means you didn't stick to your gut. If, however, you were scum, it doesn't matter about gut feelings and consistency. You just wait for TMarv to throw out the bulk of his evidence and use that as cover (which you're doing now ... sort of) and you just had to wait until Nova only needed one more vote because TMarv was doing all the hard work for you. Oh! Sorry. Re-reading your post, there's also another comment that sticks out: I have nothing to hide behind. I've been collecting information and voting accordingly. What information did you collect about Nova? Here's how information was gathered: - TMarv put the pressure on first - Then I joined in - Then Branden added a cursory comment - Nova responds - Branden makes another comment, and votes for Nova - I make a similar comment, but expand on it - TMarv believes that Nova's comments are very scummy and votes for Nova - I hold off, slow things down, give Nova a chance to explain my suspicions away - You make your first comment here, commenting on Nova's vote for TMarv and about definsiveness - Nova attempts to explain himself - I am unsatisfied with his explanation but am satisfied with my own information gathering, as well as TMarv's and (to an extent) Branden's, and vote for Nova. I also give Nova a lot of room to explain himself and am prepared to unvote him if more information comes to light - You make your second comment and say (editted for brevity): I'm not willing yet to put the final nail in the coffin just yet. I would like to see a T-Marv response to Nova's comments ... If you have useful information, I suggest you come out with it quickly! (more on this in a little bit) - TMarv makes a comment, explains his position some more - You vote Nova without any more of an explanation than: Where is your information gathering? I see TMarv and I going out and questioning Nova, but you're not. Now, there's a couple of reasons I suspect you weren't: - If other people are doing the hard work, then why should you? (If this is the case, you can't claim to be information gathering, like you did, but can hide behind the excuse 'TMarv made a great argument) - You don't want to put your neck on the line/ draw attention to yourself (Because it gives you (if you're scum) plenty of accusations to throw around in the next round ... like you're doing now) You contribution in the chain of events that led to Nova's lynching were minimal (at best). And yet, you claim to be gathering information? What's interesting is that you were pinning inactivity as a reason to suspect Jesse, but you really only contributed the final vote on Nova! That's scummy to me, both of those things. Now back to that bit I said I would return to, it's contradictory to say: I'm not willing yet to put the final nail in the coffin just yet. As well as: I would like to see a T-Marv response to Nova's comments While at the same time, saying this to Nova: If you have useful information, I suggest you come out with it quickly! It's like you said "I don't want to vote for Nova ... I want to hear from TMarv ... and I want to hear from Nova". But what do your actions say? Something completely different! If you were going by gut feelings (like you said you were) and you were sticking with them, then you did want to vote for Nova because you ended up voting for them (reverse chain of logic here: You voted for Nova ... because you always go with your gut ... your gut said vote for Nova). Then you said you wanted to hear from TMarv, which is fine because he was gunning for you. But getting him to post more accusations against Nova would provide you with more/the final cover that you needed being the last vote. BUT the most telling this is that you give yourself an out in that comment. You try and give Nova a chance to come out with new information. But, before he can even do that after TMarv's last accusations you vote to lynch him. No waiting, no if's or but's. You vote for him and he's dead. Now, if you were waiting to hear info from him, wouldn't you have waited? And if you weren't convinced, wouldn't you have waited and let the round be called to an end and just take the chances overnight of only getting one murder overnight instead of a lynch and a murder? This, to me, is exceptionally scummy. Probably the most scummiest of everything you did. Not that you voted for him, but that you did three things in one comment, one of which is a lie, another of which is to give yourself cover, and the final is to give yourself an out. There's nothing constructive there (especially if you're scum) and it's all selfish. While I was writing this, I was convinced I was going to vote for you right here, Rebel. But I'm not. I'm going to let this slow down, keep it slow, and give you ample time to respond to all this. I still believe that we will find the scum if we look at the details. There are the details on you, Rebel. How do you account for them? |
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Post by Johnny Rebel on Jun 27, 2011 9:25:41 GMT -4
Of course I can claim information gathering here. Why wouldn't I let TMarv do the work?
He obviously had information:
AND
He had the ability to investigate Nova - and according to TMarv, he wasn't scum but had some sneaky suspicion to him. Why wouldn't I cast a vote to lynch then? What more information do you need? There is a difference between rushing in to a vote and having enough information to make up your mind; TMarv had done the work for us.
What I said is I'd like to see a TMarv response to Nova's comments. TMarv gave an appropriate response, IMO. I never said I wanted to hear from Nova again - I said if you have info, you better come out with it. He didn't, TMarv made a convincing argument and I agreed. Obviously, he was on to something because he turned up dead the next day. If I were scum, why would I take out TMarv a day after agreeing with his premise? That doesn't make any sense.
We Nunez probably wasn't going to be around, you admitted such:
I went with what I had and voted, knowing Nunez wouldn't be back in time to vote. It was either don't vote and risk someone being killed in the night or make a decision based upon the information I had been given. What choice would you have made?
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Post by brandenharvey on Jun 27, 2011 15:49:18 GMT -4
I don't like to beat around the bush. Sally has convinced me that Rebel is scum.
Vote: Johnny Rebel
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