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Post by SalTal on Jun 27, 2011 19:52:07 GMT -4
[ What I said is I'd like to see a TMarv response to Nova's comments. TMarv gave an appropriate response, IMO. I never said I wanted to hear from Nova again - I said if you have info, you better come out with it. He didn't, TMarv made a convincing argument and I agreed. Again, the thing is in the details. We broke down what you said previously. But this complicates it even further and is seemingly proof of what I expected you to do: Get TMarv to give up more evidence and use this as your cover. Do you know what the time was between TMarv putting up his evidence and then you putting the final vote on Nova? About an hour. One hour. And we had many hours to go in that round! That’s super rushed, especially when we’re playing a game where there’s (sometimes) days between accusations and replies. It’s very scummy to say “Defend yourself Nova!” but not even give him the timeframe to do that. You have a higher responsibility when it comes to being the last vote. You’ve made claims about information gathering and gut feelings, but this scummy action doesn’t gel with that if you’re town. What’s also interesting is this comment from you: he wasn't scum but had some sneaky suspicion to him … What more information do you need? There is a difference between rushing in to a vote and having enough information to make up your mind; TMarv had done the work for us. You said you were going with your gut feeling and now you’re saying that you went with what TMarv said – that Nova said he wasn’t scum? You’re using TMarv’s information as cover and further proving that you relied on other people doing the work. I can’t speculate what choice I would have made with any authority. What happened, happened. If I had to hypothesise, I would have waited more than an hour to give Nova a chance to kill himself. As you can tell from earlier rounds, I don’t rush the group into a lynch. The first round, I was more than happy and content to sit on the side and not lynch (whereas you were the opposite and wanted to lynch as shown by your vote on Branden). This time, I voted on the evidence I had without being the last vote. As I have shown this round, we need to be diligent and focused. And I also speculated that the scum wouldn’t be diligent or focused. You didn’t display the diligence and the focus that I would have if I knew I was going to be the last vote. knowing Nunez wouldn't be back in time to vote How did you know that? Nunez didn’t say when he was coming back definitely. You only guessed that he wouldn’t be back. Like Jesse has said, your rush move (within the hour) to lynch Nova prevented him from having any input whatsoever. It was either don't vote and risk someone being killed in the night or make a decision based upon the information I had been given. You acknowledge that not voting is a viable option, but you have made it seem like (prior to this statement) that you had to vote otherwise something terrible would happen. There was more risk in doing what you did (relying on the information from others, not giving Nova a chance to respond, not giving Jesse a chance to have a say) than in not voting. Indeed, if you hadn’t voted, there would have been a night action and (maybe) Nova could have even protected the TMarv with his role as a blocker. Finally: If I were scum, why would I take out TMarv a day after agreeing with his premise? That doesn't make any sense. If you were scum, that would be an excellent move! I have already made the point that it is better to have the experienced person out of the game than in in the previous post. I will now demonstrate why it’s better to have him out having agreed with him. This is a mock-simulation on the premise that you are scum: TMarv: (Person X) is guilty Rebel: I don’t know. TMarv: (Person X) is guilty for (Reason 1) Rebel: I don’t know. TMarv: (Person X) is guilty for (Reason 2) Rebel: I’m still not sure TMarv: (Person X) is guilty for (Reason 3) Rebel: Ok, that is a lot of evidence and I will agree with you. -TMarv dies- Rebel: I only went with what TMarv was saying. TMarv: … Rebel: If I believed a townie, I must be townie. TMarv: … Rebel: We shouldn’t look at me, because I agreed with the most experienced player in the game. TMarv: … My point is: TMarv can’t defend, accuse, or quiz you now that he’s gone. You are using TMarv as cover, and he can’t do anything about it because he’s gone. It’s the perfect scenario for the scum. You don’t have to worry about people defending your manipulation or twisting of their words. You can use what’s in the thread and point to it and say “Look! TMarv said it!” and you can also know that the original author (TMarv) cannot defend himself. I’m not going to pile on the vote and put Jesse in the situation that you were in. I am confident that I’ve found the scum. If Jesse is convinced as well, I’m more than happy to let him be the second vote, and I’ll take the third just to be safe. I want to hear from Jesse as well now – not because I think he’s guilty, but because I want to know what he thinks about everything I’ve put forward. I’m thankful to Branden for being forthright and honest. And, of course, I invite Rebel to defend himself (as always). |
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Post by Johnny Rebel on Jun 27, 2011 20:10:29 GMT -4
We're just running around in circles here - TMarv provided information that was incriminating against Nova and I went with it. There is nothing to read in to there.
I've given a defense for my accusations against Branden. It's been rehashed numerous times - and I stuck with it because it's what I believed to be true at the time. You can twist and contort that however you'd like to but I've said it from the beginning and will go to the grave if I have to with it.
Harvey votes for my lynching based upon the same reasoning you're lambasting me over (ie; letting someone else do the work and then "jumping in") and you let it skate without a raised eyebrow. Unlike the situation with me and TMarv, you're operating under an inkling and have no tangible evidence that I'm scum. As willing as you are to continuously rake me over the coals - you're not willing to cast a vote against me. Why? You obviously believe strongly - so what's holding you back? You are wasting your time here while others sit back and plot their next strike at the top of the hour.
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Post by SalTal on Jun 28, 2011 1:06:51 GMT -4
There are a number of things in your last post that I need to address so that any effort to take the spotlight off you isn't simply done without scrutiny. If I believe something I don't think I should just give up until everything's been explained. We're just running around in circles here - TMarv provided information that was incriminating against Nova and I went with it. There is nothing to read in to there. You're trying to negate everything I've put forward previously. In two posts I've bought it up, and you're trying to explain it away with this much explanation? If you really can't explain why there are inconsistencies here, then just say so. Harvey votes for my lynching based upon the same reasoning you're lambasting me over (ie; letting someone else do the work and then "jumping in") and you let it skate without a raised eyebrow. I didn't address that because, as I have maintained throughout this round consistently, we need to be meticulous and focused. That means not throwing around wild accusations and starting three conversations at once. If you had an innocent conscious you would have explained all your things away and accepted the scrutiny. If you were scum, you'd squirm and start pointing to other people having done things to divert people's attention away. What's important is that we draw a line under people's activity and start form there. You were the most suspect to me. And you were the one I wanted to focus on as a start. If you had been able to account for all of your activities, then I would have moved on to Branden. But there is so much for you to account for that I haven't been able to move on to Branden. There is so much that is questionable about your activity that I might not even need to move on to Branden. But irrespective of that, all Branden is doing is putting out more actions to scrutinise. That's all. It's not that I'm not actually scrutinising him - it's just that I'm not putting the pressure on him now. Every time he does something, I look at it and measure it as much as I do your activity. When I'm finished with you, I'll move on to him. And then Jesse. But we're stuck on you and your details ... ... and we have to wonder hwy we're stuck on you ... This is strange. Are you saying that nothing I've posted is tangible evidence? Are you saying it's not tangible or evidence at all? Because it's what I've dug up on you. At best ... best ... I have circumstantial evidence on you. But if it were circumstantial evidence, it could be explained by circumstances. But it's the way you're saying things and what you're doing that makes you scummy, not the circumstances and the change of circumstances. That would make it not circumstancial evidence but hard evidence. This: you're not willing to cast a vote against me. Why? You obviously believe strongly - so what's holding you back? Is explained here: I’m not going to pile on the vote and put Jesse in the situation that you were in. I am confident that I’ve found the scum. If Jesse is convinced as well, I’m more than happy to let him be the second vote, and I’ll take the third just to be safe. I want to hear from Jesse as well now – not because I think he’s guilty, but because I want to know what he thinks about everything I’ve put forward. I’m thankful to Branden for being forthright and honest. And, of course, I invite Rebel to defend himself (as always). You've glossed over and distracted from the integrity of my posts at the start and the end of your reply. It's a pretty scummy (psychological) ploy. Start of saying that I've posted dishonest information and then finish saying I've posted dishonest information and then that's all people will remember - regardless of what was in the middle. That's why I break it down and accurately quote people in my critiques. Details. That's where this is all at. But saying that I'm not prepared to vote against you is incorrect. I have previously stated that I am prepared, and I am simply doing what I did last round: Giving people a chance to explain themselves (unlike you did with Nova) and taking it slow so that everyone gets a chancet o input (unlike you did with Jesse). |
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Jesse Nuñez™
Semi-Main Eventer
"Speak of the Devil and he shall appear."[F4:JesseNunez]
Posts: 575
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Post by Jesse Nuñez™ on Jun 28, 2011 1:46:57 GMT -4
Wow. Just... I've been doing (coaching) at a basketball camp and dealing with about 60 8-10 year old kids all day. Now coming back home after a long day and seeing everything unfold here with all this information is a bit overwhelming.
I admit that I'm not as good as explaining every single detail as Sally is but she is stating the same points that I brought up about you Rebel.
You're using T-Marv's information gathering and not your own to take out Nova. Now that Nova's gone and T-Marv had his eye on you earlier there would be no stopping him from investigating you this time. Knowing that was a major possibility you killed off T-Marv during the night phase in which you rushed us in to. You easily killed 2 Birds with 1 Stone.
That just seems like the most logical thing that has happened in this game. It makes sense and seems the most likely thing that could happen.
And because of that I'm actually going to make my first vote of the game and I feel so sure about this like 95% sure. I believe we will finally have our scum.
Vote: Johnny Rebel
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Post by SalTal on Jun 28, 2011 1:49:52 GMT -4
Rebel, before I pile on - last chance to explain the last accusations.
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Jesse Nuñez™
Semi-Main Eventer
"Speak of the Devil and he shall appear."[F4:JesseNunez]
Posts: 575
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Post by Jesse Nuñez™ on Jun 28, 2011 2:23:23 GMT -4
Give him longer than an hour Sally.
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Post by SalTal on Jun 28, 2011 2:28:36 GMT -4
Give him longer than an hour Sally. Haha, I was thinking an hour and a minute ... ... that was a joke, honestly. |
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Post by Blade on Jun 28, 2011 4:06:36 GMT -4
vote count
2 - Rebel [Branden, Nunez]
Not voting - Sally, Rebel
4 alive, 3 to lynch
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Post by Johnny Rebel on Jun 28, 2011 7:44:07 GMT -4
So - your goal is to be as diligent as possible yet you don't want to check out every option? Especially when someone is doing the exact same thing that you're accusing me of? Isn't it odd that you're the only one doing any talking here? Nunez and Harvey both haven't done anything but nod their head at your circular reasoning. You have zero evidence, you're strictly going on a hunch. You're making a huge mistake by not taking time to investigate the other two remaining in addition to me. I've had nothing to hide and played the game on my sleeve as you've dissected repeatedly. You're going to end up with two dead (after I am lynched; and the killer is still out on the town) because you're too caught up. It's a pretty scummy move to say you want to do the best you can to investigate and then throw all your marbles in one bag; esp. when you don't have a clue as to what Harvey and Nunez are up too. But I presume you will continue your barrage against me and I'll be vindicated after my death. Thanks for giving me more than an hour, though.  |
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Post by SalTal on Jun 28, 2011 7:46:51 GMT -4
No problem!
Vote: Jonny Rebel
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Post by Blade on Jun 28, 2011 10:09:23 GMT -4
Johnny Rebel's Cards were marked from the start of the day. Basically, it was down to Sally to drop the hammer, she did it perfectly.
Dead - Johhny Rebel - Deacon Frost - Mafia Godfather
3 OF YOU LEFT REMAINING, PLEASE SEND ME YOUR NIGHT ACTIONS ASAP
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Post by Blade on Jun 30, 2011 13:39:51 GMT -4
The night comes to a close as a winner and survivor is in sight.
Jesse, Sally and Branden are all standing their with their guns loaded with wooden stakes.
BANG!!!!! BANG!!!!
Jesse and Branden drop to the floor as Sally is the victor in this game.!!
Winner: Sally Talfourd
Now for the bit where you hate me..
____________________________________________________
Because there were only seven players, and a normal game could have the potential to be over after the 2nd day phase. I changed things up a little.
Here is the role.. YES ROLE! you recieved (Kind of)
BLADE -
You are Blade - Third party serial Killer etc etc
I say that because I can't remember exactly what I sent all of you in the description, but you all were Blade, the serial Killer.
This opened up some brilliant play after day 1 and i was happy with the discussions being made.
Yeah it wasn't a normal mafia game, but with 7 it was pretty hard to do.
SO here is how it went down:
Day 1
No Lynch
Night 1
I deleted all of my PM's by mistake because I had 190+ but 5 voted for President Jeff if memory serves me right. and Branden and Nova gained the other 2
Day 2
- Lynch Nova
Night 2
Jesse - TMarv
Sally - TMarv
TMarv - Rebel
Branden - TMarv
Rebel - Jesse
T Marv Dies with most votes
Day 3
Lynch - Rebel
Night 3
This is where it fucks up,so My backup plan fell into place
Sally - Branden
Branden - Jesse
Jesse - Sally
Dead - Branden/Jesse because Sally was the only one not to gain a vote against her at night.
____________________________________________________
So yeah, sorry for it not being a normal game, and I'm not sure if any of you caught on until you were dead and the wrong role was posted?
I had fun watching you guys make stuff up, especially tmarv who pretty much said he was a cop, unfortunately that was his downfall because near enough everyone voted for him at night.
So yeah, thanks for playing, and I hope you enjoyed my Serial Killer Mafia
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Post by brandenharvey on Jun 30, 2011 15:08:34 GMT -4
Blade, you're a genius.
One question...
How did Sally not gain a night vote? You said Jesse voted to kill Sally.
Actually, two questions...
After each death, did you just make up the roles like, for instance, Rebel being the Mafia Godfather?
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Post by Blade on Jun 30, 2011 15:33:08 GMT -4
Sally was the only person not to receive a vote on another night.
On night 3, it was a 3 way tie. Over all the nights, she never received another vote.
Yes, I made the roles up when I posted people were dead.
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Post by brandenharvey on Jun 30, 2011 15:51:53 GMT -4
Blade, you're a genius. I love the concept of this game. |
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Post by President Jeff on Jun 30, 2011 16:34:20 GMT -4
It was fun for me while it lasted, loved readying Sally's RP's to get Rebel Lynched. Congrats on Sally winning. I think this is the first time we've played a Mafia game and actually someone come out as a winner
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Post by brandenharvey on Jun 30, 2011 18:32:06 GMT -4
Did anyone figure out the nature of the game when they read their false role? i.e. President Jeff - Town Doctor
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Post by President Jeff on Jun 30, 2011 20:22:28 GMT -4
Did anyone figure out the nature of the game when they read their false role? i.e. President Jeff - Town Doctor I was confused when I read that cause that wasn't the role Blade had given me, lol. Just currious since I was killed on the first night, why did every pick me? |
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Post by SalTal on Jun 30, 2011 20:36:13 GMT -4
Yeah, when TMarv turned up without a role, I was all confused. I mean, he was saying he was a cop but turned up regular town. I never hit anyone with that because I was confused as!
Thanks, and that was heaps of fun! I was staying up at nights trying to think of ways to pin you, Rebel, haha!
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Post by Johnny Rebel on Jun 30, 2011 21:19:12 GMT -4
Yeah, when TMarv turned up without a role, I was all confused. I mean, he was saying he was a cop but turned up regular town. I never hit anyone with that because I was confused as! Thanks, and that was heaps of fun! I was staying up at nights trying to think of ways to pin you, Rebel, haha! I didn't have time to respond to your RP's against me and get everything else done. You did a solid job exposing my role. |
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Post by brandenharvey on Jul 1, 2011 0:25:43 GMT -4
Jeff, I just picked the first name on the list of participants. It ended up being yours. I don't know why everyone else did.
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Jesse Nuñez™
Semi-Main Eventer
"Speak of the Devil and he shall appear."[F4:JesseNunez]
Posts: 575
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Post by Jesse Nuñez™ on Jul 1, 2011 0:41:22 GMT -4
I thought something was wrong when I went after T-Marv the first night and Jeff came up dead in the morning lol. I was like okay whatever maybe I'm playing it wrong lol.
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Post by SalTal on Jul 1, 2011 2:38:16 GMT -4
Just currious since I was killed on the first night, why did every pick me? I figured you were too experienced. |
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Post by President Jeff on Jul 1, 2011 7:32:05 GMT -4
I don't get why everyone says I'm experienced. This was my 3rd mafia game. I'm still a noob damnit ;D
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Post by T-Marv on Jul 1, 2011 11:40:00 GMT -4
Lol... I went after you cause I was trying to set up a big frame job and keep Sally and Branden around because they seemed to buddy up with me at the beginning.
I had no idea that things were twisted like that BECAUSE my first night kill worked.
Great game with a fun twist.
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Post by T-Marv on Jul 1, 2011 11:42:30 GMT -4
For the record I had everyone CONVINCED that I was a cop....and did a hell of a job at it too....and then I died  |
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Post by Blade on Jul 1, 2011 11:44:29 GMT -4
For the record I had everyone CONVINCED that I was a cop....and did a hell of a job at it too....and then I died I feel that is exactly the reason you died, because everyone thought you were a cop. If you hadn't have come out with that, then who knows. But you pretty much sealed his lynch. Why did everyone target jeff? I think it was because everyone thought they could kill, so why not take the boss out! As for Jesse thinking his kill didnt go through, thats why I used Whistler in the short write up to try and show people there could be a roleblocker out there |
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Post by brandenharvey on Jul 1, 2011 12:17:00 GMT -4
All my night kills worked so I didn't suspect a thing.
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Post by C.J. Gates on Jul 1, 2011 23:14:23 GMT -4
Ive only ever followed the longer/bigger games, but for a game with very few people, giving everyone a serial killer role was pure genius. Give them all the ability to kill and watch them fight it out amongst themselves. Pretty clever idea, Blade and very nicely done.
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