Greatest Return

[Phil Atken]

Still laughing at the Jericho return.

When I was sitting there I was hoping he'd just walk off and he did.

It was beautiful

[Rhonda Vixen]

I am still wondering who the heck is the girl lol

[Kid Dynamo]

The return is amazing once you realize how pumped the crowd was for him, and that he figured out how to get them to boo him. It reminded me of the famous Rock in Toronto promo that was so awesome because it HAD to be for him to get booed.

WM28 will be the best ever if no one f's it up. They have a triple main event that each pander to a different crowd: the PG audience (Cena/Rock), the attitude era holdouts (Taker/HHH III), and the IWC (Punk/Y2J). Add in Bryan v Orton, Shaq v Show, Sheamus v Barrett, a MITB match, and Rhodes v Goldust, and this is shaping up to be legen...wait for it...

[Kid Dynamo]

...DARY!!!

[Jules]

I'm sure the WWE creative team will balls it all up and use Y2J as another minion to convince Cena that he must face up to the crowd's reaction to him.

Anyway, it was a good return, and I liked it more as it eventually dawned on me what it was really all about.

[Kid Dynamo]

I just hope that they let this burn reeeeeeallll slow. In fact, I wouldn't have Jericho talk or wrestle until the Royal Rumble. Have him no-show a match or two (not like Brodus Clay where he just gets left off the show; actually book him, play his music and have him not come out, then have the opponent sell frustration or relief or whatever that he's not going to come out there.

Then, at the Rumble, have him come out as number one, then after another big name comes out as #2 (like Sheamus) and before the other guy can lock up, Jericho leaps over the top rope and drops on the floor.

To me, if they want to play this out the way he debuted, then why not see how long he can go? Hell, the setup for Wrestlemania can be Johnny Ace (my absolute favorite character on television right now) giving Jericho a spot in the E-Chamber match just to force him to compete, then Jericho going in there, shrugging his shoulders, and completely laying waste to everyone (including Punk) and turning the Raw chamber into a glorified squash. Set up Punk v Jericho in the return match at Mania with Punk playing the fan-defending underdog face and the arrogant dominant heel in Jericho who "played the company, the fans, and most of all CM Chump for damned fools".

I think that's golden, but that's just me. It's better than them rushing Punk v Jericho by having their sparring matches begin next week (as I am assuming WWE will do, completely burying Ziggler in the process)

[Jason Cashe]

If Ziggler is buried then fuck that. Give Ziggler a better Finisher or just get rid of Vickie and he is ready in a few months easy. His promo on Raw was very good, anyone argue it wasn't? He's ready to be a top heel and given that Del Rio will be a top heel as well, I think Raw is pretty set with next year's Top Stars.

I personally didn't hear where Jericho got a great ovation other than when he was playing hype man and the crowd got into that. They were very quiet for his intro because far too many people guessed it to begin with. I don't think the video fit him or his gimmicks of the past so I'd like to see what it all means, how it's tied together but the crowd didn't overly cheer for him when he came out. They cheered but it wasn't roof opening loud like other guys have gotten. Stone Cold came back for an appearance? HUGE reception. The Rock? Enormous. Brock will get one too but Jericho didn't really get anything that say...Zack Ryder isn't getting. Just didn't see or hear it. The no talking was cool. Makes people want more for sure. Don't bury Ziggler though, slap you for saying that! haha

[President Jeff]

Like Kash Said, Ziggler needs a new finisher and to get rid of Vickie, the guy can stand on his own now, and his promo on Raw was Very good. Ziggler I don't think is ready to hold the WWE title. I want to see him on his own for a bit first, I can See Ziggler winning Money in the Bank and winning the title that way, which I would be totally Ok with

[Jason Cashe]

If Jeff agrees I CAN'T be wrong...

[Jules]

I'm a big fan of Ziggler's in-ring work and his matches with Punk on RAW have been as good as anything I've seen in WWE over the past few months, especially the match after SS. I agree with the points above about the promo, standing alone and finding a better finishing spot, however I do think the gimmick needs a squeak too. It's still too mid card for me that whole #HEEL cocky thing (as is the valet and current finishers), and I'd like to see more aggression from the character.

However Dolph may have to win the title first, probably in controversial circumstances and maintain a controversial reign of sneaky and/or DQ wins to retain, with Punk hunting him all the way, leading to Punk eventually regaining the strap. The problem is when do they give Dolph the title because I don't think his current gimmick works as a prolonged hunter of the title, and I can't see him winning it before WM because Punk should and will main event WM. Maybe a win at WM (after winning the rumble), leading to a late spring/summer reign with Punk hunting him and reclaiming at Summerslam.

[Jason Cashe]

I'd like to see him and Orton myself. With Orton's injury that might be a minute but I see Ziggler getting moved to Smackdown before he gets a World Title again. Orton does well with young talent and I like Orton's style for Ziggler. When I look at Orton, I see the stalker in Triple H but the intelligence of Ric Flair and at times I think he learned something from both men. Cody worked well with Orton, Christian did as well, Punk/Orton needs to happen again but Ziggler/Orton would be a good pairing to me. Punk/Ziggler is good for Mania.

[Kid Dynamo]

Honestly, I think they are buildig up Swagger for a Ziggler face turn. I think he has the charisma to be a rehash of HBK (with a little less focus on I'm sexy and more on I'm a great wrestler). HBK was brash and cocky but he brought it in the ring (most 5-star matches of all time, and its not even close) so the fans got behind him.

Just watch: Ziggler vs Swagger could happen as early as Mania. All Swagger has to do if give Dolph shit for losing to Punk and Ziggler just snap and demand a match. Vickie tries to side with Dolph over Jack but he rejects her, causing her to want him destroyed by Swagger.

[Jason Cashe]

I've heard Ziggler/Perfect comparisons and I like that to a sense. He really has the wrestling in his background, Kent State. Second in the wins at the school as well, real stats. So he can get down and with proper building of character, he can be pretty big. He did one great promo on RAW so more of that and he'll be in good shape.

Swagger I wish would do something to catch some attention. Big dude and can wrestle? I like a lisp as well so if he can cut some better promos then he can rise too but Ziggler goes over Swagger in this situation of a feud between them and I too see one. #Heel is maybe too big a promotion tool for Ziggler for him to go Face but I guess #Face works too? No, not really...

[2nd Generation Saints]

To me.. Ziggler is a new model "Mr. Ass", only better. Jericho coming back and not talking was brilliant. I marked out when he dropped the mic. and at the end his plastic smile was perfect.. I believe the lil' girl to be Stephanie McMahon Helmsley - it just makes sense for what was said in the mystery promos "I won't come back until she says I'm ready to come back." Also, am I the only one who's curious what Jericho's new finisher is gonna be? - Codebreaker? Hunico is using it. Walls of Jericho? - Seen Cody using it. Breakdown? The Miz is using it. I really wanna know what his new finisher is gonna be!!!

[Jason Cashe]

No, Steph would be stupid to bring in with him. Triple H has made it known he's married to her so if she is with Jericho then they'd feud to have it make real sense. Not sure who "SHE" is but I wouldn't guess Steph just cause she has some workout pictures online.

Also Cody using Walls Of Jericho? Jericho isn't the only person who has applied a Boston Crab and I'm just he didn't invent the move so Cody using an elevated Crab means nothing. Jericho also isn't the first person to hit a "Codebreaker" because Indy guys used it before him but because Hunico uses it as a Finisher, Jericho will probably stay away from it some. Walls Of Jericho and Lion Tamer, old school Jericho should be where his moves should be. If he brings in a new finisher then it's a rewrite from something else being done somewhere else.

My Biggest rebuttle to you though ASX is Ziggler reminding you of Billy Gunn. The ONLY thing Ziggler does that says "Billy Gunn" or "Mr Ass" is the shorts he wore for a while and the Fameasser he hits before going for his Finisher. Gunn did far more Power Moves than Ziggler, Brainbusters, Full Nelson Slams, etc. Ziggler might have a tough of Gunn but nothing of the same, not even close. I liked Gunn but he has a shitty gimmick almost the whole time in his career. "Mr. Ass" somehow seemed a bit gay.

[2nd Generation Saints]

You're right about Gunn actually.. more pwr moves and such. Ziggler's got a slightly better gimmick, which could be ALOT better - especially if he gets rid of Vickie Guerrero..

[Jules]

Jan 4, 2012 18:38:18 GMT -4 Jason Cashe said:

"Mr. Ass" somehow seemed a bit gay.

I think that was the point. Billy Gunn could have been a big star if he wasn't serially misused after DX and injuries didn't get the better of him. However I don't see the similarities between Gunn and Ziggler either, other than a similar style of hair.

[President Jeff]

Ziggler and Billy gun have similair hair and the Fame-asser, thats pretty much it ;D

Between the two, I perfer to watch a Dolph Ziggler match than a Billy Gunn Match

[BDC]

Ziggler is the best wrestler in the WWE at the moment, in my opinion anyway. He always puts on a great show, and he has the charisma to back it up.

I agree with the HBK comparissons. I think he's going to be huge

[Jason Cashe]

Yeah him and Cody Rhodes are the future right now. HOWEVER I really hope they repackaged Joe Hennig and Ted DiBiase Jr, can't just let them go to waste. Work them into something better, bigger than they've been. I like DiBiase and Hennig has potential but got shadowed in Nexus.

[Kid Dynamo]

I like the McGillicutter but Hennig has ZERO charisma.

And Jericho's new finisher? ARMBAR!!!

[Jason Cashe]

Big Show doesn't get to show his sometimes, didn't at all for a long time. Maybe Hennig is just held back from that or is suppose to be bland as he was called and picked fun at by King. Might have been the role given. DiBiase Jr and Hennig should be the Tag Team they were put in. NewGen the name. I kick ass with them on WWE 12...heh

[Kid Dynamo]

No, he's not hiding it; he doesn't have it. I don't have a link, but there's a clip out there from NXT where he forgot what to say and just stood there blankly. It was epic...fail.

Now, what COULD work would be a gimmick where he became "The Perfect Son" Joe Hennig, but was a heel that acted like he was great simply because he's a second generation star. I think the burnout heel is an underutilized gimmick base.

The only reason they wouldn't do that is because it might make Randy Orton mad...since that's...why...he was pushed.

[Jason Cashe]

Joe Hennig would have been better in Legacy for that reason. Cody Rhodes could have bloomed elsewhere but if you had Hennig and DiBiase it could have helped them. Who knows...

[2nd Generation Saints]

They need to bring Richie Steamboat to replace the already gone Morrison IMOP..

[BDC]

Have to agree with the Cody Rhodes comments. The guy is amazing

[Jason Cashe]

I agree, Cody is holding his own very well. He is carrying Booker T right now even. I disliked the dude a ton when he first came in though. Just didn't like him, the only thing I liked then was his slur...I like a good slur for shhome reashon. heh.

[Kid Dynamo]

I actually would like to see Superstars become a 2-hour show, especially with the new network. They have so many wrestlers that never compete and Superstars could be a chance to see just good old-fashioned wrestling. There could be some promos for sure, but NXT is proving that some of the young guys and nobodies just need a shot. Superstars would be the C show, but there's enough talent to fill the show. The only problem is that it has been all but proven that Vince doesn't care about anything but Cena and the creative staff has proven to be lazy and uninspired when it comes to the midcard, which are the ones that need the most creative help (I'm pretty confident that if they just told Punk to wing it, he'd be fine)