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Post by C.J. Gates on Apr 5, 2012 0:11:40 GMT -4
I don't normally ask for feedback, but the last time I did (around this time) Level One gave me some sage advice that helped me change my writing style. And, with the next Experts event coming up, High Stakes, I thought I'd maybe try and get some feedback from the masses (meh, maybe I just REALLY want that title but after two near misses, I want to try and get over that hump!) I'm going to post the last Experts RP I wrote, and maybe people can give me advice on that, see where I'm erring and where I can improve. Thanks in advance!
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Post by C.J. Gates on Apr 5, 2012 0:12:51 GMT -4
"A second chance.
"That's what I've been given. Three months ago I nearly had the True Expert title won, but my pinfall attempt was overlooked. Now, however, I've been given another chance. I've been rewarded for all of my hard work and for my near win at Dreams and Nightmares with a chance to once again step into the ring with the enemy.
"To once again fight for the True Expert title.
"This time around, I'm more seasoned in the Experts ring. This time around, I'm not staring into an unknown void. This time around I know what I'm getting myself into and I know that it's going to take all that I have. I know that if I want to prove myself, if I want to even have the thought of representing the Experts become a reality, I will need to give it my all.
"Luckily, that is all that I give. Each and every time I am inside of that ring, I make sure to leave it all on the canvas. If my opponent wants the win, I make sure that they earn it by always getting up when I'm knocked down.
"Something Jack Benevolence already knows.
"And if he didn't see it at Dreams and Nightmares, he most likely would have seen it when I returned his warning shot. He would have seen it when I took a step closer to him instead of a step back. He should have seen it when I remained focused on the task at head.
"If he's still in the dark, then I will make sure that he realizes I'm not just a somebody. I will make sure that he recognizes the skill and ability that I have to offer.
"This time around, I can't be cheated.
"This time around, I won't be left wondering what could have been.
"This time around I will once again prove myself."
----------------------------------------------------
The scene opens up inside of a living room where C.J. Gates and his brother B.J. Gates can be seen sitting on a black couch watching television. On the screen, a replay of the almost now infamous APW house show event can be seen, with C.J. Gates being drenched in crude oil. The clip continues as the True Expert champion Jack Benevolence attack Gates and then preaches to the crowd. After the speech, C.J. pauses the television and tosses the remote control across the room into an empty armchair.
"See?" C.J. says. "This is what I'm talking about. This is the kind of bullshit that I've been talking about." C.J. shakes his head, his eyes locked on the screen, a smiling image of Jack Benevolence. "People who think they know everything about everyone doing whatever the hell they please when in reality, each and every fact they have is wrong."
"Don't tell me you're bent out of shape because you got beat up, man." B.J. chuckles as he rests his head against the back of the couch. "You should be used to it by now."
"It's not the attack," C.J. answers, never breaking his line of sight from the television. "It's not even the oil being dumped on me. It's the words. The mind set. The way people like Jack Benevolence think."
"The ones who think they're all high and mighty because they've beaten everyone that's come into their path?"
"If only it ended there." C.J. sighs and leans back in the seat. "It's more the way he goes about saying it. How he ignores everything I have ever said and ever done since I've returned to wrestling. It's just...It's...It's all bullshit!"
Frustrated C.J. picks up a second remote control and tosses it toward the armchair, missing, and watching as it clatters to the ground, the battery cover popping off.
"Whoa, calm down, man." B.J. sits forward, his eyes having followed the remote. "It's not the end of the world."
"No, I know. It's just frustrating." C.J. leans back and runs his hands through his hair. "To basically be telling the world that I'm not in this for the money, that I don't do it for fame, that my parents - our parents - haven't been helping me one little bit with money...and then to have someone shit all over it?"
"Yeah, but this is Jack's game. You should know this by now, shouldn't you?"
"True, but it doesn't make it any better. It doesn't make it any less annoying." C.J. rubs his eyes with the heels of his hands before sitting forward and looking back at the television. "Just look at him. Even his smile is annoying. Everything about him seems to annoy me."
"Do I detect emotion?"
"What do you mean? I always show emotion when it comes to wrestling."
"Yeah, but you never get this angry," B.J. explains as he gets up and walks over to the remote, picking it up. "You get annoyed sometimes, but you always let it wash over you and then you're back to square one."
"I guess this is different..." C.J. begins before B.J. cuts in.
"Different? Different how?"
"He's making a personal attack against our family. That's how."
"Which is worse then when Biggs or Sally called you a worthless piece of ring equipment?" B.J. asks, turning around to look at his brother. "Worse then when Johnny Rebel told you that you were simply a placeholder champion? Worse then when Azrael Goeren called you...something in German? Worse then when everyone called you a coward for not defending your belt at Survive and Conquer?"
"None of them claimed that a win for Gates would be a win for the oil industry. None of them brought the Gates family as a whole into their issues." C.J. shakes his head again and lets out a deep breath. "Besides, Benevolence did that and then some. He did what everyone else did and then...He called us money hungry! I mean, fuck, since when have I made this entire thing about money?"
"Never," B.J. answers, matter of factly.
"Exactly. I've always been in this for the competition, for the fans, and because I enjoyed doing it. Never did I expect to get an increased pay day from it." C.J.'s eyes narrow at the image of Jack Benevolence. "Never."
"But, you did get your revenge, right?"
"I got some revenge."
"But not enough?"
C.J. glances over at his brother before returning to the screen. "You remember Dreams and Nightmares, right? When I had Rebel pinned but the referee was too worried about the submission to see that I should have had the match won. And how did Jack react to that?"
"Pissed off?"
"He didn't," C.J. adds. "He brushed it off like it never happened. If you ask him, Rebel and I weren't even near each other at the end of the match. If you ask him, I was so far away from winning the match, I might as well have been in the opening bout."
"So," B.J. starts, "you're mad because he didn't recognize what you did?"
"Because he doesn't see me as a threat and as much as I spend most of my time trying to prove everyone otherwise, Benevolence just stays in his own little world." C.J. pauses and takes another breath. "Add to that the fact that he dumped oil on me and then proceeded to call me out for being money hungry...I'm about ready for this match to come around."
B.J. smirks as he drops the remote onto the coffee table. "Ah, fire. This is what's been missing from you, Ceej! The passion!"
"I always have the passion, it's just a matter of whether or not I get pissed off enough to let it show before we step into the ring together."
"Do you think it might hurt you?" B.J. asks. "You know, getting all fired up and pissed off? If you rarely show it before, and you show it now, there is always that chance, isn't there?"
"It won't hurt me," C.J. answers, waving his hand. "Trust me, the only thing it will do is couple with the support those fans give me and make me work that much harder inside of the ring to prove myself and my point to Jack.
A bit of silence falls between the brothers before B.J. looks over at C.J.
"Do you think you can beat him?" he asks, and C.J. smirks.
"It's possible. I nearly beat him three months ago, I could very well beat him this time out. And if I do? The win will be that much sweeter because I would have once again proved myself to someone that spent all of his waking moments doubting me."
"And if you lose?"
C.J. hesitates before answering, turning back to the face of Jack Benevolence for an answer.
"If I lose? I would have been beaten by someone who is truly talented. I would have been bested by a man that is not just a paper champion." C.J. leans back in the couch. "I'd be lying if I said that Jack wasn't extremely talented, or that he had the mind set of a desperate champion. I'd be lying if I said that I had this match in the bag, one hundred percent. Because I don't. Jack doesn't. He might not understand that, but once the bell rings, he will realize that I am more than just a paperweight."
"Seems like you've got it figured out."
"I try," C.J. retorts. "I make sure I'm prepared for what is going to happen. I mean, I could tell you right now that if Jack wins, he won't give me any credit for it. I could tell you right now that he will try to use every underhanded tactic in the book to get by me. But I'm not too worried about the cheating, bit. I've done my homework and I'm prepared for anything that he has to throw my way. I'm prepared for everything that he will try and throw my way."
"You've got a tough road ahead of you," B.J. says with a nod.
"True, but as the old saying goes, it's times like these that are opportune for showing if you're going to go big or go home."
C.J. continues to stare at the face of Jack Benevolence as the scene fades out to black.
----------------------------------------------------
"Three months ago I mentioned that it wasn't the last that the Experts would see of C.J. Gate. I told Jack Benevolence that he would see more of C.J. Gates. I said that at some point in time, I would find myself back in the hunt for the True Expert title.
"And here I am, three months later, with another title shot looming before me.
"Am I surprised? To be honest, yes. There are tons of talented individuals within the Experts, and any one of them could be standing where I am. Any of them could be challenging for the title but instead of them, it's me. And it's fitting because as I'm sure everyone saw, Jack and I have some unfinished business.
"Dreams and Nightmares, the APW house show, the oil, pick a moment, Jack, and you can link any of them back to you and I have unresolved issues. One could almost say that we have a bit of bad blood brewing between us. One could say that this match holds more to it than just another foray into the land of the Experts. That it is more than just an exhibition match with a title on the line.
"Some could say it's personal.
"You might not have kidnapped by brothers and beaten them senseless, but you still brought my family into it. You still tried to defame my character with your propaganda. You still tried to use your mouth to fight your battles, with hopes that it would intimidate me before the match even got underway. And really, Jack, if you knew anything about me, you would know that intimidation and attacks don't exactly help. That when someone tries to get under my skin, tries to rile me up, and tries to paint the town red with my blood, it never works out. Ask Sally Talfourd, ask Biggs, ask Johnny Rebel. All three of them have tried to do just that in the past year, and each one of them failed.
"The idea that Russell White could stick his nose into the match at any moment is old hat when you consider that I've spent the past year playing hero to all of those rebels. When you realize that I have spent all my time fighting off that evil and making sure that if someone wants to win, then they have to earn it.
"Sure, some people could say that you earned that title by making it through the Extreme Tournament over the summer, but really, you did so on your own terms. Some could even say that you earned the right to call yourself the True Expert champion with your win at Dreams and Nightmares, but as I'm sure you've pushed into the back of your mind, you nearly lost that match.
"Remember?
"Remember when I had Johnny Rebel pinned for the three count? Remember when I came oh so close to taking that title away from you? Do you, Jack? No, of course not, because if it's not in your favor, you tend to forget all about it. You tend to push it to the back of your mind and just move along like nothing truly happened.
"Just like everyone else who plays by your rules. They all choose to believe what they want, and they don't recognize the true talent that is all around them. Sure, you might see me as someone just looking for a bit of praise, but truly, I'm looking for people to actually see what's going on around them. To see that they aren't king shit, and that they are vulnerable. But there's only one way to do that, and that one way is to keep going out to that ring and proving myself time and time again.
"Really, you could have saved yourself all of that by actually listening to what I had to say, by watching what I am capable of doing, and realizing that all of it is just one big warning. That everything is a warning for you to be ready for everything. To make sure you're prepared for anything. Expect the unexpected. Because while you might think that once you knock me down, I'm down for good, that's not how it is at all, which I proved when you thought you might have put the nail in the coffin with your attack at the house show.
"I'm sure you at least remember that rebuttal, right?
"Of course, everything will be different when we stand face to face, with no weapons or sneak attacks standing in our way. I know that you are a skilled individual. I mean, you won the Extreme Tournament, even if it was by a bit of a crook. There's a reason you're the champion. There's a reason that everyone sees your name and recognizes what you are capable of doing. I know what I'm getting myself into, and I know just how to counter everything that you throw my way.
"And once the match is underway, you'll realize that I wasn't just blowing smoke. Unlike you, I don't make up tales about big oil conspiraces. Come Rival Factions, there WILL be no denying just who I am.
"I might not be Level One or Black Death or any other former True Expert champion. I might not have the pedigree of a man that has been through the ringer for ten years and I definitely don't have the strength to pick up my opponents and toss them around like rag dolls.
"What I am, is a competitor.
"What I am, is a true champion.
"What I am, is C.J. Gates.
"And there is nothing you can do to change that, Jack. No matter how hard you try, I'll just get right back up and show you how much heart I have for this business. I will show you that any bitterness you think I might harbor over losing, is pointless because I'm focused on this match on this night. I'm focused on making sure those fans have a reason to cheer. I am focused on making sure that Jack Benevolence realizes he is not as indestructible as he claims to be.
"I am focused on making this match one for the ages.
"So let me ask you Jack, after all that we've said, and all that has happened in the past three months, do you have what it takes to prove to everyone that you are the better man?
"Do you have what it takes to go big when you need it the most?
"It's time to find out."
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Post by Pax Constantine on Apr 5, 2012 13:48:10 GMT -4
Gates, I don't get why you and Noble would try to use this. People come to you guys for feedback, what can anyone of us tell you about how to improve? BOOO... What Kash said you guys are the top guys here and you should help more of the up starts. I gave Harris feed back because he's a good writer just need to think out his rps in a different setting etc. Btw I dug your promos over the past few months I was here. Noble just had more umph at Rasslemania but i'm pretty sure you have "It".
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Post by Johnny Rebel on Apr 5, 2012 14:16:17 GMT -4
Feedback is feedback. If you don't have feedback to leave, move along and let those who might have something to add to his RP do so.
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Post by Jason Cashe on Apr 5, 2012 15:55:44 GMT -4
My apologizes Gates and Rebel.
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Post by Metrodamus on Apr 5, 2012 19:31:18 GMT -4
As someone who is good friends with Jack (see Russell White in my role play about a month ago), I obviously don't envy having to role play against him. I know for a fact you had him scared last time and a measure of apropos have to go to you for that. The one thing I've noticed in your role plays for Experts is almost that you're too focused on selling the match. I know that's exactly what Russ is looking for in his judging, but in this role play it just to me seemed ... overloaded in a sense. Not where by the end I'm dying for it to end, but that I just want something different.
Jack does something really well in that he creates two distinct characters in White, who simply put is in it for the money (hence the Gates investment) and Jack, who simply doesn't give a fuck and just goes out and takes care of business. Even though he sells the match through his role play, he does it with two different voices where as in this role play it's seemingly all CJ ... and it becomes less effective at the end. Your ability to sell the match and the mindset of CJ is absolutely superb but I think there could be more in to it with a second lens. I'm not suggesting a manager type, but I think given the Gates type character - an over bearing Benevolence mark would fit in perfectly.
The other thing I find you sometimes do and it's the same point Kyle gave to Mike in the other feedback thread and that's occasionally I feel like you're telling me how I should feel and as a reader I almost feel insulted. It's something that was driven into me in elementary school but showing is better than telling, right up until the end when the actions of your character confirm what has happened all along. It gives the reader a good feeling inside, while also promoting their own intelligence. I think Jack is a good example to use given he's your opponent. He's never once said that White is a money-grubbing bastard but his actions show that, same with Benevolence and at the end of the role play, the capstone action affirms that.
I don't know if this is helpful in anyway but hopefully something strikes a bell.
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Post by Kurt on Apr 6, 2012 11:09:35 GMT -4
Before I give you feedback, I want to say that I disagree with Jason and Pax 100%. As writers, our goal is constant improvement, and we can always improve. We're not at like this pinnacle of quality despite our success in a wrestling game. And as far as we should be helping the upstarts...we do, ha! We just would like to ask for feedback as well! Last point: Three months ago, I asked for feedback on the OOC and really didn't receive much help...minus CJ sending me a PM helping me out. I ran with his advice, and I think it paid off...so there's always room for improvement. CJ, bud, much like you helped me, I'm going to do my best at help you! Now, onto your RP... I'm going to echo James's point: Your trash talking bits are superb. There's a clear train of thought that sells your opponent, sells the match, sells previous shows, and sells yourself as a competitor. CJ is a great face, and his monologue bits are quality. I don't believe they need to be amended, because I believe the bits that you want to improve are the more scene-based bits. I think the main thing that can help you improve are adding a sense of tension/emotion to the CJ character, and maybe not even through the character himself, but through secondary characters. I think this RP shows off an emotional side of CJ seeing how angry he is, but even then there's still a reserved sense. I think seeing a greater range of CJ's emotions regarding a match like this will help you. To kind of echo what Hart said, the 'second lens' might help to make these segments more meaning, even if it's just a character to challenge or give more depth to CJ. Essentially, if you can find a way for us to have a more vested interest in CJ as a character, you're going to see the improvement you're hoping for. Jack is so successful because we absolutely loathe him as a character. Your monologue bits are equivalent to his, so I think it's just that character-ness that pushes him slightly over. One RP where you captured this emotional sense AMAINGLY well was your second RM RP with CJ/his Mom. There was a great sense of tension, and when CJ walked out and his Mom uttered her last line...it was an emotional, mind blowing moment. I'm not saying your RPs should all be twists and turns, but if you can produce more genuine character moments like that, you can beat Jack. Anyway, I do hope this helped. I hope my feedback isn't coming off as "CJ is boring," because that's not it at all. I just think a little more of an emotional connection will put you exactly where you want to be. I do hope I didn't just hand you back the Undisputed Title...so if this works, you should totally ignore it when we face off again.
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Post by C.J. Gates on Apr 7, 2012 10:35:49 GMT -4
Thanks for the tips, guys. The story telling portion of my RPs is always the weak point (to note, I never wrote story bits in my RPs until I came to APW so I'm still getting used to it). Will definitely try and work on it to maybe overcome the hurdle. It's not like it's an easy hurdle but figured I'd see if anyone had any tips for me, heh.
After all, no one is perfect and everyone has room for improvement.
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