The Simpsons Mafia - Game Thread

[jasonandrews]

EBWOP

And the reason im voting for Goodburn is because u NEVER claimed rolecop and he keeps insinuating it.Also i think that is funny that certain people are trying distract from the fact that he is throwing wild theory after wild theory to end in a deadlock

[jasonandrews]

Ebwop

Sorry for the mispelling i meant "I never claimed" its late and i am tired lol

[[ManiC]]

Jun 21, 2012 2:51:13 GMT -4 jasonandrews said:

Ebwop

Sorry for the mispelling i meant "I never claimed" its late and i am tired lol

Same excuse as Goodburn and you expect us to buy it from him but not you? I think not my friend.

[Michael Jennings]

Will you guys quit bickering and actually realize that Blade has said someone is scum. The people ignoring this are the ones I'm looking at right now. WAKE UP, quit arguing over stupid crap we can deal with later, and let's lynch someone that has been outed as scum by another player. This round and round debating is going to lead to a no lynch or a mislynch.

Bacon, you need to keep quiet. You're causing too many distractions and pointless bickering. I think you are town because of what you've said and I've seen town busdriver roles but you are causing A LOT of distracting that is getting us nowhere.

Someone look into Goodburn tonight and someone else look into Bacon. This bickering is pointless. IF Gates turns up scum then we can verify Blade as town. The rest of these cases are weak and based on posts by newish players. The Gates vote is the only one based on a night action. Quit arguing, quit creating unnecessary problems, and vote the right way. These other wagons are weak as crap and I'm thinking scum is pushing our eyes onto those wagons and not the Gates one. That's my perspective on things as of now.

[Smash INC]

I'm debating something internally but for now I have no intention of changing my vote.

Blade has said he doesn't need to offer a big statement, however I feel it is prudent that he provides SOMETHING rather than making a vote and waiting for the others to start rolling. In a game where we've already established a very likely Jester role, following a blind lynch can't be good for us. Blade has to provide something of merit, otherwise you're sheeping a vote just because Blade has the background of being a strong player.

Onto the Bacon/Goodburn thing. At least to me, Bacon has just given off a vibe of someone who doesn't understand how his role works. I think he's digging a hole and yes, I would be on that vote if I didn't believe that the Goodburn angle was worth pursuing. Bacon was cracking from the very first vote, I consider that a town tell for now.

As far as Goodburn is concerned, his whole play reeks of deflection. Day one had a few sniping moments where he seemed to try and aim the spotlight back at those early conflicts to try and get a wagon rolling. Day 2 comes along and the same thing is happening to an extent, deflection rather than pressure. Goodburn implies he's taking some time to explain his stance (and get away from the game) before magically apearing as soon as Bacon started acting weird. Again, this is a case of deflecting the blame and pushing it onto someone else without having to truly offer anything yourself.

Goodburn's big post earlier boils down to one point, "the big players are trying to keep him down brotherjack." Fact is I'm not voting you because you're new, I'm voting you because you've offered nothing but sniping moments and have been giving off scumtells since the game started, I feel that it has intensified today and that your big explanation is nothing more than another attempt to push the vote to anyone else, as long as it's not you.

We're also certainly establishing FAR more on the Goodburn lynch and have acquired more information about alignments and tells from it. The Gates lynch is weak unless Blade offers something, Bacon's behaviour has been erratic and nonsensical but he's been crapping himself from the very first vote. He already offered up about as much information as we can expect and the sheer fear he has from a single vote tells me he's town, moreso he's a good role.

Goodburn still has something to offer, I am certain the pressure will get us information and his lynch is the best choice right now. I'm putting myself on the line here, with two other wagons I could just quitely vote on I'm still chasing this up. From everything Goodburn has put across to the little ways he's played with deflection, there is something in this vote. I might be the only one to think so, but when you read his big explanation post again take a look at the overall language and direction of it. Goodburn's argument comes across as someone who has been instructed to say what he did, It feels like there is more than one voice coming from Goodburn's posts recently. I urge you to stick to voting him, keep the pressure on and we'll get something. I just know that Goodburn is mafia, he will slip up and when he does we can hammer him away.

Short version, I just know he's mafia.

[Jules]

As it stands I'm still feeling a bit torn. Bacon has been thrown a lot of bones here by people who have done the explaining of his role for him. But, at least now there does seem to be some understanding of what he has been doing. I'm still suspicious and those with the power to do so should probably think about checking him out tonight.

Goodburn. Well I've had bad vibes about him, and I'd agree with Keaton that his game play has been deflective, and he still hasn't given us any hint or reason as to why we should trust him as town; he's repeated over and over again that he is trying to figure the game out, as well as trying to point fingers at others.

Then we have this whole Blade/C.J. thing with this post from Jamesv

Jun 21, 2012 3:39:17 GMT -4 Michael Jennings said:

Will you guys quit bickering and actually realize that Blade has said someone is scum. The people ignoring this are the ones I'm looking at right now. WAKE UP, quit arguing over stupid crap we can deal with later, and let's lynch someone that has been outed as scum by another player. This round and round debating is going to lead to a no lynch or a mislynch.

Someone look into Goodburn tonight and someone else look into Bacon. This bickering is pointless. IF Gates turns up scum then we can verify Blade as town. The rest of these cases are weak and based on posts by newish players. The Gates vote is the only one based on a night action. Quit arguing, quit creating unnecessary problems, and vote the right way. These other wagons are weak as crap and I'm thinking scum is pushing our eyes onto those wagons and not the Gates one. That's my perspective on things as of now.

I could dissect this bit by bit, but Keaton has already summed it up nicely.

Jun 21, 2012 4:16:59 GMT -4 Smash INC said:

Blade has said he doesn't need to offer a big statement, however I feel it is prudent that he provides SOMETHING rather than making a vote and waiting for the others to start rolling. In a game where we've already established a very likely Jester role, following a blind lynch can't be good for us. Blade has to provide something of merit, otherwise you're sheeping a vote just because Blade has the background of being a strong player.

I am actually shocked by this play by James, for someone that experienced and who considers himself a good player it looks horrible. I'm curious, would you have jumped on this vote if someone like Bacon had come out and voted with the explanation Blade gives?

At best this vote is based on snobbery, at worst it's evidence that you and Blade are trying something on here. Either way, until Blade can come out and actually give a reason for why this is a good vote, your credibility is on shaky ground. Not to mention there is a desperation in your tone that is raising red flags with me. That's my perspective on things.

Anyway, the game is in danger of stalling here (James is right about that), but I'm not convinced it's the Goodburn/Bacon stuff that is doing it. Going to go with my gut here, since he's been scummy both day 1 and 2, hasn't really offered a clear, sensical explanation for anything he has said or done. I'm going to vote: Goodburn

[Kris]

Keaton and Jules have basically covered why I find Goodburn to be most suspicious; I will only add one minor point.

Goodburn, sir, you've not pointed out anything new of note. Rather, your posts have been all either apologizing for being new, throwing tantrums over being voted for, or piping up to agree with 'Yeah, what he/she said!' posts. That is what is suspicious, not to mention how you've done zero explaining about the questions that have been posed to you about your rather scummy behavior.

As for Blade/JamesV... perhaps that's our third party? Just a thought since that is two people big, from what we know, and there seems to be an almost psychic connection between the two-- not to mention how one line in particular sticks out to me.

Jun 21, 2012 3:39:17 GMT -4 Michael Jennings said:

Will you guys quit bickering and actually realize that Blade has said someone is scum.

Blade never did that. He did say these things...

Jun 20, 2012 19:45:06 GMT -4 Blade said:

vote: CJ gates

That I am certain

Jun 20, 2012 21:01:05 GMT -4 Blade said:

I am certain that CJ deserves my vote.

How, that is up to you. I dont need to make a massive statement, and I dont expect people to follow me, but I wont be changing my vote.

...but he never once outed CJ as scum. All the more he said was that he was sure of his vote, and that he didn't expect anyone else to follow him. The fact that JamesV somehow magically understands everything that is going on here, blindly following Blade on an utter and absolute lack of information when there's far more solid lynches to pursue?

Well, that's ringing some alarm bells, and is something that should be investigated/looked into over night two by those that can do so. Until then, my vote is staying right where it is.

[Kris]

EBWOP: Also, mind explaining how you know for sure that Blade used a night action, JamesV, and that he isn't trying to pull something thanks to a lack of anything remotely resembling evidence? Because that's what his vagueries are suggesting to me.

[T-Marv]

Wow... this group is really split up eh? I really don't want to see a no lynch here, but I really don't want to MisLynch Town either. Goodburn seems to me a bit more noobish than scum here.

Bacon feels like a scum bus driver and is back peddeling trying to claim town. I feel he is the more solid lynch.

But let me ask you this. Say we lynch Goodburn, and he turns up town...what do we have to work with there? I'm not being a prick here, but asking a serious question and hoping for a serious answer.

[C.J. Gates]

Jun 21, 2012 8:44:52 GMT -4 T-Marv said:

But let me ask you this. Say we lynch Goodburn, and he turns up town...what do we have to work with there? I'm not being a prick here, but asking a serious question and hoping for a serious answer.

I thought I somewhat answered this earlier but...

We don't really gain much by lynching Goodburn, and for the most part, probably don't gain much by lynching Bacon either. All it would do is prove to us that they are either town or scum, but if Knuckles' role wasn't revealed, I feel as though neither will theres, so we'll never know if Bacon is the busdriver if we lynch him.

Neither has really connected to anyone the way you and Kris have (again, not a guide to lynch you two, just using it as an example) and the closest they have is the busdriver information. If both turn up town, but end with them turning up town and don't do anything to clear anyone else. I think of the two Bacon is the only one to say he could have cleared someone, but remembering there are three factions, that's just not possible as a busdriver.

With that said however, I'm more inclined right now to look at Goodburn for a lynch then Bacon. I feel as though the reasoning for me has been summed up by Saint and Kris, and I feel as though Bacon is just more not understanding his role.

With that:

Vote: Goodburn

[[ManiC]]

We concentrate and lynch Bacon the third day? It seems unlikely that both of their suspicious behaviour is due to being relatively inexperienced. That said I'm still very torn on who I be to lynch.

[Jules]

Jun 21, 2012 7:44:04 GMT -4 Kris said:

As for Blade/JamesV... perhaps that's our third party?

This thought occurred to me too. But then, these are two of the most experienced players in the game - why would they be so slapdash about it? It's an enigma right now.

Jun 21, 2012 8:44:52 GMT -4 T-Marv said:

But let me ask you this. Say we lynch Goodburn, and he turns up town...what do we have to work with there?

I think this is a valid question. I gave it some thought myself.

What do we have.

We lynch Goodburn.

- If Goodburn flips town then I guess we're looking at Keaton primarily, then Kris and myself to a lesser extent since we seem to be the ones most confident in our vote.

- If he flips scum, then whatever faction he is part of we know that Keaton is not part of it, and to some extent it may be argued that Kris and myself are not. Although it wouldn't clear any of us. But anyone who pushed against the lynch, while it doesn't mean they are scum, it means questions will linger.


Or...

We lynch Bacon.

- If he flips town, then we're looking at those who have pushed that lynch, to a large extent that's you Tmarv, and I know he thinks he is playing under the radar and is going unnoticed, but Callahan too, with his little bit scummy-ish vote of Bacon.

- If he flips scum, well then Tmarv is unlikely to be part of his faction, neither Callahan, but neither are cleared. We're looking at people like Keaton, Kris, me who went for Goodburn over Bacon. We're especially looking at people like Kurt and C.J. who have gone some way to fill in the gaps in Bacon's account (but if scum, depends on which faction to determine the number of suspects).

*

If I've missed out some variables then let me know.

But if this is accurate, then when you balance it up there is not a lot between them. I don't see either lynch providing overwhelming amount of info over the other (in all the possibilities). It will give us leads, but nothing concrete as I see it.

So what it all boils down to is who feels most scummy to you. There isn't a huge amount of hard evidence, but a fair amount of circumstantial against each.

- I completely agree with you Tmarv that both Bacon and Goodburn have done a fair bit of backtracking today.

- However, Bacon in a round about way, and with assistance, has given us some description of what he has being doing, what his role is (if he is town, he is at worst guilty of not understanding his role).

- Goodburn has given us nothing, but a bunch of waffle. What I also failed to mention before, but when going back through the thread I was reminded of Goodburn's fishing for Homer early in this phase. Maybe that was just some noob mistake, maybe it was something more sinister. However, it doesn't sit right, and along with his generally vagueness and lack of definite info that might convince me he can be trusted, if I had to choose between the two my gut says Goodburn is more scummy than Bacon.

[T-Marv]

Jun 21, 2012 9:14:16 GMT -4 C.J. Gates said:

Jun 21, 2012 8:44:52 GMT -4 T-Marv said:

But let me ask you this. Say we lynch Goodburn, and he turns up town...what do we have to work with there? I'm not being a prick here, but asking a serious question and hoping for a serious answer.

I thought I somewhat answered this earlier but...

We don't really gain much by lynching Goodburn, and for the most part, probably don't gain much by lynching Bacon either. All it would do is prove to us that they are either town or scum, but if Knuckles' role wasn't revealed, I feel as though neither will theres, so we'll never know if Bacon is the busdriver if we lynch him.

Neither has really connected to anyone the way you and Kris have (again, not a guide to lynch you two, just using it as an example) and the closest they have is the busdriver information. If both turn up town, but end with them turning up town and don't do anything to clear anyone else. I think of the two Bacon is the only one to say he could have cleared someone, but remembering there are three factions, that's just not possible as a busdriver.

With that said however, I'm more inclined right now to look at Goodburn for a lynch then Bacon. I feel as though the reasoning for me has been summed up by Saint and Kris, and I feel as though Bacon is just more not understanding his role.

With that:

Vote: Goodburn

You probably did explain this already and I just missed it. Trying to finish stuff for Overdrive and the such and probably just skimmed everything.

unvote

I was looking hard at both Goodburn and Bacon. But I can see why everyone is going for Goodburn today. If he does flip town, it doesn't hurt us TOO much, but we won't be able to afford yet ANOTHER mislynch after this.

I've got an idea tonight to test a couple other people's theories here...and may be able to clear or incriminate another person...

vote: Goodburn

[[ManiC]]

9 Votes to lynch yeah?

As it stands is it:
Goodburn: VII
CJ: II
Bacon: I

Or have I miscounted?

[Kurt]

Jun 21, 2012 3:39:17 GMT -4 Michael Jennings said:

Will you guys quit bickering and actually realize that Blade has said someone is scum. The people ignoring this are the ones I'm looking at right now. WAKE UP, quit arguing over stupid crap we can deal with later, and let's lynch someone that has been outed as scum by another player. This round and round debating is going to lead to a no lynch or a mislynch.

Bacon, you need to keep quiet. You're causing too many distractions and pointless bickering. I think you are town because of what you've said and I've seen town busdriver roles but you are causing A LOT of distracting that is getting us nowhere.

Someone look into Goodburn tonight and someone else look into Bacon. This bickering is pointless. IF Gates turns up scum then we can verify Blade as town. The rest of these cases are weak and based on posts by newish players. The Gates vote is the only one based on a night action. Quit arguing, quit creating unnecessary problems, and vote the right way. These other wagons are weak as crap and I'm thinking scum is pushing our eyes onto those wagons and not the Gates one. That's my perspective on things as of now.

Everyone has pretty much said when I'm about to, but I feel inclined to demonstrate how nonsensical this is.

I'm not surprised no one is jumping on this lynch. Blade isn't defending it, going so far as to make the point that he doesn't expect people to follow him; that's fine. He's getting what he expected. You, on the other hand, are erratic in your defense of Blade's posts.

You agreed earlier today that Goodburn was suspicious and that looking at him was a "good possibility"...and now the lynch is a distraction? Even if we aren't 100% sure, this is someone we're reasonably confident is scum. You, on the other hand, want us to use an ethos argument to follow Blade...which is just bad play.

He never says CJ is scum. He never says his info is from a night action. We can infer those things, but without Blade's confirmation, we're just playing to the rhythm of his drum. He's already made his point. It's there. Worst case scenario, we mislynch Goodburn and move on from there. Even if CJ flips scum or third party, he could easily be the other.

Simply put, he made a claim and didn't back it up on purpose. That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence...and for today, it's been dismissed.

[Kurt]

Jun 21, 2012 10:44:21 GMT -4 [ManiC] said:

9 Votes to lynch yeah?

As it stands is it:
Goodburn: VII
CJ: II
Bacon: I

Or have I miscounted?

The vote amount on Goodburn is right anyway.

The best thing to do for now is to wait for Goodburn's final defense. Should include a role-claim, so let's see what he says.

[Smash INC]

Jun 21, 2012 10:44:21 GMT -4 [ManiC] said:

9 Votes to lynch yeah?

As it stands is it:
Goodburn: VII
CJ: II
Bacon: I

Or have I miscounted?

From Jeff's last count I believe this is the current state of things.

Goodburn (Keaton, Kris. Kurt, Bacon, Jules, Gates, Marv)
Gates (Blade, JamesV)
Bacon (Callahan)

So let's examine the list of non-voters.

Soul's been around and has been in the game, but seems to have more interest in Brenden and Rebel's absence.

Anselm (or should I call you Manic?) is here and I assume is considering voting due to asking for the numbers.

Chaz was more noticeable during the first day phase, can't say a huge amount really.

Rebel's got limited access and could be replaced depending, so we need to be aware that his vote isn't available to us just yet.

Goodburn's obviously not voting himself off.

Brenden hasn't been around which could be due to various reasons. Calvin's in much the same position.

As it stands I think we're reliant on Callahan to switch and someone to hammer it away since James seems to be worshipping Blade. Blade apparently has something so I wouldn't expect him to switch. We might be two votes away, but considering those two votes are reliant on a pool of about 4 active people (not including Blade/James as explained), I'm worried we're running into another no-lynch.

Didn't have an issue with it on day one, would have a large issue with it now since unless a golden piuece of info comes up we're still on this.

[[ManiC]]

Well since that's the vote count...

Vote: Goodburn

[Michael Jennings]

You guys are going to lose the game for the town with decisions like this. Mark my words on that one.

Saint, I'm "worshipping" Blade? Get over yourself. He doesn't out any info unless he has something. I've played with him too many times and I know the difference between him BSing and having something on someone. This time I think he has something.

Kris,fine, I'm ringing alarm bells but it doesn't change my opinion that this wagon is weak on Goddburn and reeks of scum trying to get out other scum or some noob townie who is new at mafia.

Jules, I'm betting you are either purple or red from the way you're playing. Kris too. Both deflecting attention to set up something for day three. What I think is I was busdriven and was the nightkill target and threw out some stuff that is making them pounce on me so that they get rid of a threat. I'm looking at you, Kris, and Gates as being non-town right now. Also, if Bacon said it, YES I would react the same way. Why? Because it's beter than the two wagons we have now.

LOVE the bandwagon votes on Goodburn too. Some of these are clear bandwagon votes. Mani's is an obvious one. Betting money Goodburn comes up town at this rate.

[[ManiC]]

I've said for a while I've been split on voting, re-reading through the thread has merely allowed me to make a better-informed decision. Plus I have my own reasons for wanting to know the votes.

[Smash INC]

Jun 21, 2012 11:56:11 GMT -4 Michael Jennings said:

Saint, I'm "worshipping" Blade? Get over yourself. He doesn't out any info unless he has something. I've played with him too many times and I know the difference between him BSing and having something on someone. This time I think he has something.

He hasn't actually outed anything yet.

You say you know the difference between Blade having info or just playing the odds, then you rephrase it by saying you think he has something. Either you think he has something or you're completely sure.

I think you're in the former but you desperately want it to be the latter which is why you're pressing HARD for the vote to change. I'm not saying you're mafia but I wouldn't be surprised if you did come up red.

Stay mad, Goodburn is a scummy player and has provided nothing of merit. Regardless of his experience he's clearly become the preferred lynch, the pressure of the hammer vote will surely have an impact and from my perspective I believe that everything I have said about Goodburn will be proven correct once he pulls of a final gambit.

And when he does come up mafia, you can bow down to your new scumhunting god. Deal?

[Jules]

Jun 21, 2012 11:56:11 GMT -4 Michael Jennings said:

You guys are going to lose the game for the town with decisions like this. Mark my words on that one.

Saint, I'm "worshipping" Blade? Get over yourself. He doesn't out any info unless he has something. I've played with him too many times and I know the difference between him BSing and having something on someone. This time I think he has something.

Kris,fine, I'm ringing alarm bells but it doesn't change my opinion that this wagon is weak on Goddburn and reeks of scum trying to get out other scum or some noob townie who is new at mafia.

Jules, I'm betting you are either purple or red from the way you're playing. Kris too. Both deflecting attention to set up something for day three. What I think is I was busdriven and was the nightkill target and threw out some stuff that is making them pounce on me so that they get rid of a threat. I'm looking at you, Kris, and Gates as being non-town right now. Also, if Bacon said it, YES I would react the same way. Why? Because it's beter than the two wagons we have now.

LOVE the bandwagon votes on Goodburn too. Some of these are clear bandwagon votes. Mani's is an obvious one. Betting money Goodburn comes up town at this rate.

I can't help but think this smacks just a tiny bit of a tantrum. You're throwing the toys out of the pram because nobody wants to go along with your idea of what is a good lynch.

And just to repeat what has been pointed out over and over again - Blade hasn't given us any info. We have a vague report that C.J. Gates 'deserves' his vote. Nothing about this suggests a) Blade has a town role and is therefore a credible source, therefore b) how can we possibly know Blade isn't just chancing his arm?

Actually, what makes me even less likely to follow Blade's vote is that he doesn't usually play like this. You're right, he doesn't give out info unless it's reliable. But that's the point, Blade isn't giving us any info, he's just made a vote and said we can follow him if we want, but he doesn't expect us to. This isn't town play.

More than ever I'm inclined to believe that Blade is either a rogue role like a jester, and he's trying to get lynched; or he is scum and he's thrown this C.J. stuff out to try and stall a lynch (and you back him up with that...maybe it's Goodburn you're trying to protect because that's the lynch you seem so set against); or maybe Blade is a townie, but something has happened to force this move.

Either way, the evidence is that this is not how Blade plays when he is a genuine pro-town player. But you seem to the be the only one who doesn't see this, and everyone who disagrees is wrong.

But, tell me James, you're so eager to point out who is culpable if Goodburn flips town; if he flips scum, should we hold you accountable next for not believing what many of us believe to be the case?

Of course not, without further evidence we'd just be lynching you because you disagree with us....but isn't that exactly what you're saying now? Those not with you are against you.

[Michael Jennings]

Unvote
Vote: Goodburn

Better than a no lynch. No one obviously is listening to Blade. I'm not letting there be a no lynch or a mislynch. Honestly it's either this or nothing since you guys are dead set on this lynch.

Alright Mani. I'll buy that. Just seemed like a bandwagon vote.

[Michael Jennings]

Jun 21, 2012 12:25:54 GMT -4 Smash INC said:

Jun 21, 2012 11:56:11 GMT -4 Michael Jennings said:

Saint, I'm "worshipping" Blade? Get over yourself. He doesn't out any info unless he has something. I've played with him too many times and I know the difference between him BSing and having something on someone. This time I think he has something.

He hasn't actually outed anything yet.

You say you know the difference between Blade having info or just playing the odds, then you rephrase it by saying you think he has something. Either you think he has something or you're completely sure.

I think you're in the former but you desperately want it to be the latter which is why you're pressing HARD for the vote to change. I'm not saying you're mafia but I wouldn't be surprised if you did come up red.

Stay mad, Goodburn is a scummy player and has provided nothing of merit. Regardless of his experience he's clearly become the preferred lynch, the pressure of the hammer vote will surely have an impact and from my perspective I believe that everything I have said about Goodburn will be proven correct once he pulls of a final gambit.

And when he does come up mafia, you can bow down to your new scumhunting god. Deal?

You think you're a scumhunting god. That has to be one of the DUMBEST comments I have ever seen in a mafia game EVER. Ever hear of Ian? Midas? Fnord? Rob? Yeah, those are top level players. You're just going after a noob and thinking you're right when in most cases like this the "scumhunting god" is dead wrong.

Jun 21, 2012 12:30:14 GMT -4 Jules said:

Jun 21, 2012 11:56:11 GMT -4 Michael Jennings said:

You guys are going to lose the game for the town with decisions like this. Mark my words on that one.

Saint, I'm "worshipping" Blade? Get over yourself. He doesn't out any info unless he has something. I've played with him too many times and I know the difference between him BSing and having something on someone. This time I think he has something.

Kris,fine, I'm ringing alarm bells but it doesn't change my opinion that this wagon is weak on Goddburn and reeks of scum trying to get out other scum or some noob townie who is new at mafia.

Jules, I'm betting you are either purple or red from the way you're playing. Kris too. Both deflecting attention to set up something for day three. What I think is I was busdriven and was the nightkill target and threw out some stuff that is making them pounce on me so that they get rid of a threat. I'm looking at you, Kris, and Gates as being non-town right now. Also, if Bacon said it, YES I would react the same way. Why? Because it's beter than the two wagons we have now.

LOVE the bandwagon votes on Goodburn too. Some of these are clear bandwagon votes. Mani's is an obvious one. Betting money Goodburn comes up town at this rate.

I can't help but think this smacks just a tiny bit of a tantrum. You're throwing the toys out of the pram because nobody wants to go along with your idea of what is a good lynch.

And just to repeat what has been pointed out over and over again - Blade hasn't given us any info. We have a vague report that C.J. Gates 'deserves' his vote. Nothing about this suggests a) Blade has a town role and is therefore a credible source, therefore b) how can we possibly know Blade isn't just chancing his arm?

Actually, what makes me even less likely to follow Blade's vote is that he doesn't usually play like this. You're right, he doesn't give out info unless it's reliable. But that's the point, Blade isn't giving us any info, he's just made a vote and said we can follow him if we want, but he doesn't expect us to. This isn't town play.

More than ever I'm inclined to believe that Blade is either a rogue role like a jester, and he's trying to get lynched; or he is scum and he's thrown this C.J. stuff out to try and stall a lynch (and you back him up with that...maybe it's Goodburn you're trying to protect because that's the lynch you seem so set against); or maybe Blade is a townie, but something has happened to force this move.

Either way, the evidence is that this is not how Blade plays when he is a genuine pro-town player. But you seem to the be the only one who doesn't see this, and everyone who disagrees is wrong.

But, tell me James, you're so eager to point out who is culpable if Goodburn flips town; if he flips scum, should we hold you accountable next for not believing what many of us believe to be the case?

Of course not, without further evidence we'd just be lynching you because you disagree with us....but isn't that exactly what you're saying now? Those not with you are against you.

A tantrum? I'm MORE aggressive and defensive when town. You know this and the fact you are saying I'm having a tantrum when YOU KNOW HOW I PLAY has me 90% sure you are not town.

Blade isn't saying anything because he probably doesn't want to out his role which is smart. WHY would he say what he knows? To get nightkilled over it? C'mon, man. That's ollogical.

Goodburn I'm trying to protect? Pfft. If anything Saint and Kris are buddying up to you and trying to side with you so you don't go after them. Saint is apparently a "scumhunting god" which is codeword for likely scum.

IF he flips scum or town you should protect me. I can tell you how many scum and non-town are on the wagon. Have a one shot ability that I can use at any time. You want to nab scum? Someone protect me and I can give you a number of the scum on this wagon. It's that simple.

I'm shocked nobody is getting scum vibes from your posts. This is not how you act when town. You're being more aggressive and pushing things which is not like you. Something is up with that. I will say this much. Just do anything to me and I will be shown to be town. Scum tried to kill me last night according to Bacon. Obvious I'm not red mafia. I also roleclaimed A LONG TIME AGO but then again everyone is ignoring that.

[[ManiC]]

I thought roleclaiming got you modkilled?

[[ManiC]]

EBWOP: My mistake, that's just character-claiming

[Smash INC]

So, er, James...

[Kurt]

Show me where you roleclaimed James. I couldn't find it.

[The Soul Of Philly]

James character claimed he was Flanders web he said he's homers neighbor.

Also, I had a feeling early in day two that kris and Marv were purple, in not eactly sure what that means completely, but now I'm thinking blade and James are blade neon very quiet and James hopping of his wagon with no evidence whatsoever. And then James says to not get rid of the rookie, which I take as a "keep the noobs alive so we don't get figure out as soon" approach.

[Michael Callahan]

How can anyone be good at a game which largely depends on chance? That's what I'm wondering.

Also, I can't find it TJ but if he has character claimed in that way then you'll put yourself in some deep shit from a town-perspective for pointing that out.

There's being an upstanding citizen and then there's outright whistle-blowing. Jeff will no doubt be looking at every post to ensure the rules are being upheld, the fact you're pointing out a town rule-break may seem like a scum move trying to A) Prevent a sure-fire lynch on a scum buddy and B) Ensure that a townplayer is killed.