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Post by Buckson Gooch on Dec 12, 2012 16:52:21 GMT -4
I've been trying to do some research on Mafia, and there is a role that I was intrigued by. One that if someone was investigated they would appear good even if they were scum, and there is one vice versa.
Jules:
I know he corrected himself in the next post, either via accident or to cover his tracks, could this be because if someone checked his role, even if he was scum, it would come back as innocent?
Whoever the lie detector is could check out a different comment than the above. Scum or not scum, the truth shouldn't be subjected to affiliation. Right? (Remember I'm a new guy) So if Jules is telling the truth, it wouldn't matter his role. I wonder if that was what J-Reb was getting at in his comment.
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Post by KJE on Dec 12, 2012 18:40:17 GMT -4
There were other comments made that can be analyzed even better than that one there.
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Post by A.C. Smith on Dec 12, 2012 18:51:51 GMT -4
Checking in for the first time; wakes and funerals suck.
Anyway, the more I read, the more I'm convinced me "smelling a rat" was more than just a gut feeling. Jules has said a lot during this day phase, but not much that convinces me he's town. In fact, him saying he's town, then modifying the phrasing in his next post, is very, very suspicious.
VOTE: Jules
After back-to-back no-lynches to open things up, we need a lynch that, at minimum, teaches us something we can go off of. If my gut feeling is right, Jules turns up scum (perhaps even the GF with the 'innocent' thing taken into account). If I'm wrong, we look at Gooch, who is going after Jules even more aggressively than me.
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Post by Jules on Dec 12, 2012 19:21:14 GMT -4
The problem here is that you're all barking up the wrong tree, but if I ignore it and laugh it off, as I should, I know I'll get accused of retreating into the shadows. What it should say and what it does say are two completely different things. Slip up? Well the back and forth today gave me the info I was hoping it would. Good job fellows  You see it's comments like these that I cannot let slide, for the very reason why I am being interrogated. Firstly, I corrected myself Johnny because I knew the semantics police would be on the charge. I've got nothing to hide, so I'm happy for any investigation to be directed my way if that's what it's going to take to take the town off the wrong course and get back onto the right one. As for Kaylyn, please elaborate, because a comment like the one you made is no different from what I am being accused of. If I am expected to be open about my meanings and my intentions, then I expect consistency across the board. Now for Buckson. I'm not voting for you, so calm down pal. Despite what looks like some awful OMGUS play on your behalf, I simply don't have enough info to really want to put a vote on anyone. That whole 'martyr' stuff was nonsense. What has anyone's actions in a previous game got to do with this one? Besides it would utterly absurd for me to fall on my own sword when I have no reason to, and let's assume I have a power role, how would me playing 'martyr' help the town in this game. The more you speak the more it sounds like you're trying to score a free lynch. And what can I do to change people's minds? Er, well nothing really in terms of 'evidence'. Stop rolefishing. If I had any direct info that could 'save my ass' I would have shared it by now. A.C., like Kaylyn I'm demanding a better explanation of your post. Spell out what exactly I've said (or haven't said) that doesn't convince you. We can argue semantics all day long, but what won't be argued is that if the town continues with this ridicuous witch hunt, as one of the main forces behind it, they are going to be looking at you, my friend, when I flip town. Also, it is noted, A.C., that 'subtle' little comment about Buckson. Setting something up there? (You see how easy that's done - and just how ridiculous it is). Anyway, if anyone wants clarification, ask me anything, I'll be completely open, whatever you want to know. Otherwise, let's get on with finding actual scum. A lot of people have yet to check in, so it would be nice to know if there is any concrete info (rather than hunches) out there. |
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Post by A.C. Smith on Dec 12, 2012 19:31:43 GMT -4
A.C., like Kaylyn I'm demanding a better explanation of your post. Spell out what exactly I've said (or haven't said) that doesn't convince you. We can argue semantics all day long, but what won't be argued is that if the town continues with this ridicuous witch hunt, as one of the main forces behind it, they are going to be looking at you, my friend, when I flip town. I want to know specifics as to why the third post clarifying that people would find you innocent was necessary. My thinking, which is far from ridiculous, is that you're the mafia GF, which means that, if investigated, you'd turn up innocent regardless of your actual alignment. We do agree on something. Plenty of people haven't checked in or haven't come forward with information that could be valuable. Right now, the thinking I and several others have is the best lead we've got. If you've got something more valuable, don't hold it in. |
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Post by Buckson Gooch on Dec 12, 2012 20:25:37 GMT -4
Jules, you aren't getting a rise out of me, you just continue to say stuff that is suspect. If I'm just too stupid to play this game, why respond? If I had anything factual, perhaps L1 or KJE would ask the same things. I don't know what OMGUS means, but I'm sure it's not complimentary. I'm 100% town. I've done nothing that is suspect...if memory serves me right the only person that has compared me to scum was...you. But you were just being "facetious" right? The only reason Speede has mentioned me (remember, he's town) is because you and I have been going back and forth today and I've strongly pushed that you are scum. I'm willing to go out on a limb for it. Perhaps I'm making an inexperienced faux pas in Mafia.
If you have a power role, why have you not used it to actually help us find scum or prove who is town? What does this have to do with a previous game? Well...there are similar roles that happen from game to game. Referencing a previous game, considering my lack of experience, would be all I could do and could go off of. Sorry to drag you down with my obvious ignorance of the game.
I don't know what OMGUS means, but I'm sure it's not complimentary. I'm not in fear of you or anyone voting for me, because I haven't done anything scummy, I've just been loud...as a matter of fact the only person to tie "Gooch" and "Scummy" together was...you. I've done everything in my power to show I'm town, if someone checks me out they will confirm it. Without a shadow of a doubt. No "should" they "WILL." I. AM. TOWN.
"Calm down", I guess I could. Just having fun and trying to develop my playing style. Perhaps I've been too outspoken, but experience isn't something you have until right after you need it.
You can call me dumb at this game, and perchance I am, but if you end up being scum, this "dumb" player has been pointing out your errors.
If you are town, I'll be glad to apologize and I hope you'll understand my excitement tied with my ignorance.
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Post by Buckson Gooch on Dec 12, 2012 20:27:37 GMT -4
Sorry for the repetitive post, I was responding in the quick reply box and couldn't see everything I wrote. My apologies.
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Post by KJE on Dec 12, 2012 21:23:01 GMT -4
Jules, the comment I made is to help in seeing who you are. If you are town or not. There is something that you said that can be analyzed and its not the whole i am innocent, or I will come up innocent comment either. I want to know what side you're on. I was those that are strong players cleared if possible so I can find out who I can and can not trust to help town win.
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Post by Speede on Dec 12, 2012 23:17:04 GMT -4
Well, so far the debate for today has been very... interesting... Honestly, the whole "I will turn up town" comment from Jules might have been a typo, and I'm willing to let it go for now, because honestly, I think the way he's going about all this is actually kinda reasonable. As far as whether or not he's scum, I can't tell, but right now, I'm undecided on the subject.
Gooch, I hate to say it bro, but those long, repetitive posts are a bit... curious, honestly. You keep stressing your inexperience, and that makes me wonder, because if you're this inexperienced, I'm surprised you're this adamant about Jules being scum with so little to go on. If you've got some critical info, out with it. We're not voting on a hunch.
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Post by Buckson Gooch on Dec 12, 2012 23:28:11 GMT -4
Speede, you are right. I have been overzealous. I have no evidence and I'm just looking at how Jules has written things. That's not fair or helpful and is taking our focus off of trying to find scum by evidence.
Unvote: Jules
I'm sorry, Jules. I'm still learning to play the game and I thought I was onto something. I need to learn that you vote when there is evidence. It does seem inconsistent for me to expect people to believe me for being town when I have no evidence but for me not to do the same for you.
Sorry I've bombed the boards today guys. Still trying to figure out how to play, and I've learned what I was doing today wasn't right.
I really am town, tho.
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Post by tuhoa on Dec 13, 2012 2:04:26 GMT -4
Thanks for confirming me town, Jeff.
Now onto business...
Vote: Gooch
You've been way too up and up here... Without anything solid. I really don't have a good feeling about you, and I'm going with my gut on this one.
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Post by KJE on Dec 13, 2012 3:37:32 GMT -4
Anyone notice that knuckles has been poof 2 days in a row? Someone is about to be modkilled and if its another town.... damn him.
We will get evidence on people if others start to speak up. I mean... day 1 we had a role block somewhere and no one spoke up about who it was that did this or that... When someone role blocks and it is written up in the explaination... say it, because you know who you target and if the name is red or green those people targeted can be confirmed as either town, or scum.
Its one thing to play your role close to your chest to help town... its another to sit back and not give evidence when you know you can help clear or point out the scum. This is becoming a stall now from the town end because of people playing it too safe and with no doctors we are pretty fucked as it is.
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Post by Jules on Dec 13, 2012 5:33:52 GMT -4
Anyone notice that knuckles has been poof 2 days in a row? Someone is about to be modkilled and if its another town.... damn him. We will get evidence on people if others start to speak up. I mean... day 1 we had a role block somewhere and no one spoke up about who it was that did this or that... When someone role blocks and it is written up in the explaination... say it, because you know who you target and if the name is red or green those people targeted can be confirmed as either town, or scum. Its one thing to play your role close to your chest to help town... its another to sit back and not give evidence when you know you can help clear or point out the scum. This is becoming a stall now from the town end because of people playing it too safe and with no doctors we are pretty fucked as it is. I had this same thought from the write-up on night 1, the fact that no-one was came forward to say they had RBed someone (who would have been red if the write-up could be relied upon) is what led me to think that part of the write-up may have been flavour. It looks like the RBer, if there is one who acted in accordance with the night 1 write-up, changed target night 2 because Hart was killed. But if the RBer knew who s/he targeted and could see from the write-up it was Harley, why change target? The logical thing, if you didn't want to out yourself, would be to just keep targeting the same player to prevent the mafia kill. The evidence we have here suggests to me that the apparent roleblock was flavour. The problem is we won't know for certain until somebody speaks up (or the fallout). However, I don't want the RBer to out him/herself unless they are categorically beyond doubt that they have nailed a scummer. Just keep doing what you're doing for now. |
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Post by President Jeff on Dec 13, 2012 6:42:49 GMT -4
Anyone notice that knuckles has been poof 2 days in a row? Someone is about to be modkilled and if its another town.... damn him. Knuckles isn't even playing |
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Post by Buckson Gooch on Dec 13, 2012 10:13:50 GMT -4
Phenom, you can vote for me, and that's fine. I'm sure the truth will come out that I'm town, so I'm not worried about it.
But consider your logic...
So, basically, you could've said...
Sounds legit.
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Post by Level-Two on Dec 13, 2012 13:43:52 GMT -4
If I could plus your comment Gooch, I would. It doesn't appear like we're going anywhere fast today as people apparently are still sitting on information.
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Post by SalTal on Dec 13, 2012 14:12:18 GMT -4
No info on my end, and I find it a unite surprising that no one is coming out with anything. Like, nothing at all. I think it's going t get to the stage where blind potshots are going to be the best bet, which scum are going to love.
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Post by KJE on Dec 13, 2012 16:29:08 GMT -4
Firstly, allow me to try and clear the air about myself. I CAN DO SHIT... But with the role I have, doing shit on night one would make me useless for the rest of the game (hint hint). Hopefully, I didn't cross any lines with this post. I never roleclaimed, and I never outright said anything about my role. So I should be safe. However, I'm just laying this to bed, before I get accused of anything. Secondly... I do agree that there are too many people saying "I'm as useless as tits on a bull". Obviously, we have a few people lying their asses off. Thus, we need to check out everyone who has already said they're useless, and we know at least 1 or 2 of them will turn scum. Just a theory, but I believe that it's headed in the right direction. If this was the case after night one.... What's up with now? I am almost positive all you said when you spoke today was "Thanks for clearing me Jeff" I was all for thinking you were town with what you posted stated above, but with no information what so ever coming from you today.... |
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Post by KJE on Dec 13, 2012 16:30:27 GMT -4
EBWOP: Thanks for the reminder Jeff, so used to him being here haha
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Post by A.C. Smith on Dec 13, 2012 19:26:19 GMT -4
All we've got to go in is hearsay and gut feelings. Bad news for us, great news for the scum.
My vote is staying on Jules. I'm still searching for an explanation on why the third post was necessary, and he hasn't given one. Until I get one, he or I get lynched, or concrete evidence of another player being scum comes out, my vote is sticking.
To the rest of the players: If you don't want to go along with that, that's your call. But in a game where we've got nothing to go off of except Jules being in the wind, like he usually does at this point when he's scum, despite my specific, pointed request at how he could clear himself, I'm keeping my vote pinned on him until I'm given a very good reason to change it.
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Post by Speede on Dec 13, 2012 20:38:49 GMT -4
No info on my end, and I find it a unite surprising that no one is coming out with anything. Like, nothing at all. I think it's going t get to the stage where blind potshots are going to be the best bet, which scum are going to love. Something about the phrasing in that makes me suspicious of you... No offense meant, but it sounds like you're saying, "let's just go in blindly and get this over with", which to me sounds like you're TRYING to get us to vote blindly by saying, "sooner or later...", and in the case that we do, the scum benefits if we choose a townie, as you stated... |
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Post by Jules on Dec 13, 2012 20:55:15 GMT -4
All we've got to go in is hearsay and gut feelings. Bad news for us, great news for the scum. My vote is staying on Jules. I'm still searching for an explanation on why the third post was necessary, and he hasn't given one. Until I get one, he or I get lynched, or concrete evidence of another player being scum comes out, my vote is sticking. To the rest of the players: If you don't want to go along with that, that's your call. But in a game where we've got nothing to go off of except Jules being in the wind, like he usually does at this point when he's scum, despite my specific, pointed request at how he could clear himself, I'm keeping my vote pinned on him until I'm given a very good reason to change it. We're still doing this? You're right about one thing though: we have nothing to go off. You're reasoning is based too much on what you think you have perceived in previous games, rather than the evidence of this game. But if we're going down that road of referencing past games, how many times have we seen mislynches based on 'gut feelings'? The answer: too many. Yeah we have to use our instincts in this game to a certain degree, but when it leads to reactionary and paranoid action based on no solid evidence, well then we may as well just pick at random at the start of the day the person we want to lynch. As for your vote, well I think we're at that stage where nothing I could say or do, short of roleclaiming, is going to satisfy you. That's your prerogative. To answer your question though (which I already did) - the third post was there to stop pedants such as yourself trying to find something in the phrasing that wasn't there. You're taking making mountains out of mole hills to a whole new level. I'll level with you, I can't give a satisfactory answer to your 'specific, pointed request' to clear myself. The only way you get cleared in this game is by providing info that isn't counter-claimed, or through the actions of others. At this point I can satisfy neither condition. However, ask yourself this: could you satisfy me if I made a 'specific, pointed request' for you to clear yourself? Because right now there is as much reason to doubt you with this wild goose chase you're intent upon as there is to doubt anyone. |
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Post by A.C. Smith on Dec 13, 2012 21:25:44 GMT -4
All we've got to go in is hearsay and gut feelings. Bad news for us, great news for the scum. My vote is staying on Jules. I'm still searching for an explanation on why the third post was necessary, and he hasn't given one. Until I get one, he or I get lynched, or concrete evidence of another player being scum comes out, my vote is sticking. To the rest of the players: If you don't want to go along with that, that's your call. But in a game where we've got nothing to go off of except Jules being in the wind, like he usually does at this point when he's scum, despite my specific, pointed request at how he could clear himself, I'm keeping my vote pinned on him until I'm given a very good reason to change it. We're still doing this? You're right about one thing though: we have nothing to go off. You're reasoning is based too much on what you think you have perceived in previous games, rather than the evidence of this game. But if we're going down that road of referencing past games, how many times have we seen mislynches based on 'gut feelings'? The answer: too many. Yeah we have to use our instincts in this game to a certain degree, but when it leads to reactionary and paranoid action based on no solid evidence, well then we may as well just pick at random at the start of the day the person we want to lynch. As for your vote, well I think we're at that stage where nothing I could say or do, short of roleclaiming, is going to satisfy you. That's your prerogative. To answer your question though (which I already did) - the third post was there to stop pedants such as yourself trying to find something in the phrasing that wasn't there. You're taking making mountains out of mole hills to a whole new level. I'll level with you, I can't give a satisfactory answer to your 'specific, pointed request' to clear myself. The only way you get cleared in this game is by providing info that isn't counter-claimed, or through the actions of others. At this point I can satisfy neither condition. However, ask yourself this: could you satisfy me if I made a 'specific, pointed request' for you to clear yourself? Because right now there is as much reason to doubt you with this wild goose chase you're intent upon as there is to doubt anyone. So the answer is no, you can't give me a short, clear answer on why a third post was needed. Without one, my vote sticks. Bottom line, even you need to admit that that's among the scummiest things that's happened in this game. At this point, all we've got to go on is gut feelings and hearsay. And right now, my gut is screaming that you're scum. I urge anyone who has doubts about me to check me tonight (especially since, if Jules is scum and wants to take out the guy suspicious of him, I may be a target). That's about all I can do to clear myself, which, by the way, nobody besides you has asked me to do. You're the one acting suspiciously around here. And apparently I'm doing so as well by calling you out on it? No. Just no. |
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Post by yarmouth1 on Dec 13, 2012 21:31:27 GMT -4
Checking in will give my too seance in the morning as its 1.30am here and am very tired.
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Post by KJE on Dec 13, 2012 21:35:56 GMT -4
There are many acting suspicious, and with people going back and forth so much it's not really getting us anywhere. Sure we seen the reactions people had to everything but with so few people actually helping out... its rather ridiculous. And I can see why jules corrected himself. It was a wrong choice of words saying innocent because a GF would come up as such, but there are other things that he said that could be checked upon to have him cleared, or not. Let it go. it will be dealt with in time. What we need to do is stop holding everything so close and if you have information get it out there because this is too much of NOTHING going on.
Once more I am still waiting on Phenom to come through with information. While Jeff might have cleared you.. until you answer my question, I will assume you and Jeff can not be trusted. (no offense) But you claimed or rather hinted at something you can do and didnt come through with an outcome for it so I am calling bullshit until I get something more from you.
This whole back and forth between AC and Jules is actually covering a lot and taking away from everything else. We have seen many times how people just skim through... and I asked a valid question and no one else picked up or commented on it, instead it was covered up and might not even be seen. Guess Not everyone really wants to find the scum here. They would rather just argue it out until both wind up gone and for all we know you are both town.
Jules said what he could and you said you wont change your vote AC. We get it. You both are not giving anything new, so just let it go for now. If people want to vote they will, and if they do then by all means jump back at it and defend yourself Jules.
Not trying to step on anyones toes here but its frustrating when NOTHING has come so far in the game outside of me clearing people. I know I am not the only one who can do something here so people need to speak up already.
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Post by tuhoa on Dec 13, 2012 22:36:49 GMT -4
Gooch is just going way too hard for my tastes, and I really have a bad feeling about him. Since the start of the game, I've seen him take way too much offense to the smallest remarks. Even right on down to his "sounds legit" comment to me. Without taking offense, he took offense.
Furthermore, twisting my words meant nothing, Gooch. I never said "I'm going with my gut, and voting for you based on a gut feeling, because you had a gut feeling". That makes no sense, bro. And it makes it look even more scum, because you're twisting my words, making no sense while you're at it, because what you said that I said, was NOT what I said at all. Get what I'm saying?
It's all about the he said she said bullshit.
- Fred Durst
Now, I'm not expecting anyone to pick up on this vote and lynch you. What I'm doing is covering my ass. Because if indeed you do flip mafia, I'll be able to say "I told you so". But who knows, big man... Maybe I wont even make it that long.
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Post by KJE on Dec 13, 2012 23:00:48 GMT -4
Once more you post and ignore what I said... Phenom.. please answer what I said below in regards to this here... Firstly, allow me to try and clear the air about myself. I CAN DO SHIT... But with the role I have, doing shit on night one would make me useless for the rest of the game (hint hint). Hopefully, I didn't cross any lines with this post. I never roleclaimed, and I never outright said anything about my role. So I should be safe. However, I'm just laying this to bed, before I get accused of anything. Secondly... I do agree that there are too many people saying "I'm as useless as tits on a bull". Obviously, we have a few people lying their asses off. Thus, we need to check out everyone who has already said they're useless, and we know at least 1 or 2 of them will turn scum. Just a theory, but I believe that it's headed in the right direction. If this was the case after night one.... What's up with now? I am almost positive all you said when you spoke today was "Thanks for clearing me Jeff" I was all for thinking you were town with what you posted stated above, but with no information what so ever coming from you today.... |
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Post by Buckson Gooch on Dec 13, 2012 23:06:44 GMT -4
No prob, Phenom. You're doing what you think is right. We have next to nothing to go off of.
I'm Town.
But, Phenom, I'd like for you to respond to KJE as well.
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Post by SalTal on Dec 14, 2012 1:03:24 GMT -4
No info on my end, and I find it a unite surprising that no one is coming out with anything. Like, nothing at all. I think it's going t get to the stage where blind potshots are going to be the best bet, which scum are going to love. Something about the phrasing in that makes me suspicious of you... No offense meant, but it sounds like you're saying, "let's just go in blindly and get this over with", which to me sounds like you're TRYING to get us to vote blindly by saying, "sooner or later...", and in the case that we do, the scum benefits if we choose a townie, as you stated... I'm enjoying this Roy Speede conga line of suspicion. While you're distracted with me, the scum is getting away with their plans. |
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Post by Michael Callahan on Dec 14, 2012 3:13:52 GMT -4
I always appreciate a good Limp Bizkit reference.
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