DIE HARD MAFIA DISCUSSION THREAD (DAY 8)

[Pepsi]

I have nothing really to report. I too assume that someone must have been role blocked as there was no kill. Could be that someone didn't get there night action in.

At least we now know there is at least 3 mafia characters.

[A.C. Smith]

Checking in.

This is a thought and only a thought. But maybe there not being a kill WASN'T the best thing for the town. Let me explain.

Would there, potentially, be any way for Hans to be a X-shot vigilante? In that case, it would make total sense, based on the write-up, for him to potentially have elected to use it based on night one's information, only to be role-blocked by the scum. If that's the case, not only did we as a town lose a chance to take out a scum member, but we also, potentially, have given away the identity of Hans, who could be a crucial town character in the game.

I'm sure someone will tell me I'm overthinking the situation. But based on the write-up, wouldn't a situation like that make sense?

[KJE]

Honestly, whoever is doing the role blocking is doing a fantastic job, or there is something we are not seeing here.

[Mark Mania]

Although, I don't think it would be smart for the role blocker to out themselves yet. See what info everyone else has and don't get yourself targeted.

[The Soul Of Philly]

So it looks like the 10/3/1/1 split is the most likely one

Im starting to think, due to the mafia being the good guys in the movie and the oppressed in the write ups,that they either have a limited amount of kills or no kills at all, only protective roles for themselves, at least with a sk, a mafia doctor would make sense.

The role block suggested in the write up, to me, is flavor I mean, it says, "this is mafia and this iconic moment doesn't go as planned" I'm paraphrasing my phone. In the movie, takagi, I believe is killed at this moment, but due to Mafia the event was altered to fit the game. I'm not ruling out a roleblock but I'm feeling that's it is unlikely it was a roleblock.

As far as a night action goes, nothing to report from the phase.

[Pepsi]

Jan 11, 2013 13:00:41 GMT -4 The Soul Of Philly said:

So it looks like the 10/3/1/1 split is the most likely one

Im starting to think, due to the mafia being the good guys in the movie and the oppressed in the write ups,that they either have a limited amount of kills or no kills at all, only protective roles for themselves, at least with a sk, a mafia doctor would make sense.

The role block suggested in the write up, to me, is flavor I mean, it says, "this is mafia and this iconic moment doesn't go as planned" I'm paraphrasing my phone. In the movie, takagi, I believe is killed at this moment, but due to Mafia the event was altered to fit the game. I'm not ruling out a roleblock but I'm feeling that's it is unlikely it was a roleblock.

As far as a night action goes, nothing to report from the phase.

Interesting thought, and I can see your point. The question in my mind is why we didn't see a kill from McClane.

[Jules]

I need to read the write-up, and I'll have a response once I've had a chance to do so.

[The Soul Of Philly]

Dunno, they could have elected not to use their night action, gotten roleblocked or not send in an action.

[T-Marv]

This is unlikely, but since there is a SK and mafia.... there could be alternating night actions.

I know in games I run with SK's, they act on odd nights and scum acts on even night. It might not be the case, but a possibility.

[T-Marv]

EBWOP Which would lead to why the SK didn't kill even if the Scum got blocked.

[KJE]

That's a strong possibility Marv. Alternate nights and X shots seem to be the case, that or no one is wanting to give info so soon to keep themselves from being outed. Only problem with that is when a flood of info comes in from people we have to wonder if it's legit or not. Then again thats the case with anything anyone says at this point.

[Level-Two]

As others have already stated - the kill was likely stopped VIA role block. I am not buying an inactive killer at this point given the night one result. The only other reasonable explanation is that the kill was doctored. Other than that, I have nothing for now.

This is a thought and only a thought. But maybe there not being a kill WASN'T the best thing for the town. Let me explain.

Would there, potentially, be any way for Hans to be a X-shot vigilante? In that case, it would make total sense, based on the write-up, for him to potentially have elected to use it based on night one's information, only to be role-blocked by the scum. If that's the case, not only did we as a town lose a chance to take out a scum member, but we also, potentially, have given away the identity of Hans, who could be a crucial town character in the game.

This doesn't make any sense to me even if you're right about Hans and the role blocker blocking his vig kill. The way I see it a vig is far more likely to hit another town two days in with ZERO information out and about. If anything, even a role block on Hans was a good thing for the town.

I must say this post scored a red flag with me. It could be an innocent point on its own but on the other side of things throwing out the possibility it was another town member that had their kill blocked last night only serves to keep the role blocker in prolonged state of silence.

[Jules]

I'd lean towards a successful roleblock or a town doctor stopping the kill. It could be that we have an inactive killer on the mafia, but that's supposition right now. There may be some substance too to Marv's alternate kill idea.

If the scum kill was stopped by a successful town RB, then there is at least one person who may have an idea about the identity of at least one scum player. However, I can't see a way that could be 100% certain they targeted a scum player right now with there probably a doctor too.

If we work on the alternate night hypothesis, the town RBer and doctor targeting the same person night 4 may help...but we're a long way from that yet.

[A.C. Smith]

Jan 11, 2013 17:32:12 GMT -4 Level-Two said:

As others have already stated - the kill was likely stopped VIA role block. I am not buying an inactive killer at this point given the night one result. The only other reasonable explanation is that the kill was doctored. Other than that, I have nothing for now.

This is a thought and only a thought. But maybe there not being a kill WASN'T the best thing for the town. Let me explain.

Would there, potentially, be any way for Hans to be a X-shot vigilante? In that case, it would make total sense, based on the write-up, for him to potentially have elected to use it based on night one's information, only to be role-blocked by the scum. If that's the case, not only did we as a town lose a chance to take out a scum member, but we also, potentially, have given away the identity of Hans, who could be a crucial town character in the game.

This doesn't make any sense to me even if you're right about Hans and the role blocker blocking his vig kill. The way I see it a vig is far more likely to hit another town two days in with ZERO information out and about. If anything, even a role block on Hans was a good thing for the town.

I must say this post scored a red flag with me. It could be an innocent point on its own but on the other side of things throwing out the possibility it was another town member that had their kill blocked last night only serves to keep the role blocker in prolonged state of silence.

Hans getting role-blocked the night he may have chosen to kill a mob member was a GOOD thing? I don't follow.

[Michael Jennings]

I think there was either a roleblock or a protect. Only explanation for the non-kill. I also think the alternate nights theory might be a definite possibility but we won't know until the game goes along.

[Reya Serra]

I think it's more likely a protect than a roleblock. However, I don't think it is a protection by a town doctor but actually a mafia one. With a potential serial killer in play it is possible that the mafia would have a doctor of their own and that they would choose to protect one of their own in Takagi.

[Level-Two]

Hans getting role-blocked the night he may have chosen to kill a mob member was a GOOD thing? I don't follow.

We don't know Hans is a vig nor if he was who he used his role on. We're all playing as terrorists and cops and as a result the write ups will reflect that. If there is a hans with a vig kill then it's likely one shot... so why not come out with the info?

In this game there will be lots of guns, people will be likely ''shot'' at and people will ''avoid'' death and it could all be nothing but flavor.

Also, reading the write up Hans is also pushing for a ''code'' which means Hans could have an investigation role of some sort if you want to go by the write up. There was also no SK kill but no sign of a role block in the write up either - which could be the mods way of hiding an SK role block early for balance issues OR the SK/Mafia or even purple alternate kills each night.

[A.C. Smith]

I'm not entirely sure I 100% agree with L-1's reasoning, but this part of it was spot-on.

Jan 11, 2013 22:38:34 GMT -4 Level-Two said:

We don't know Hans is a vig nor if he was who he used his role on. We're all playing as terrorists and cops and as a result the write ups will reflect that. If there is a hans with a vig kill then it's likely one shot... so why not come out with the info?

It's day three. Anyone with info needs to come out with it; we've got three anti-town factions at work, at least one (possibly more) can kill, and it's absolutely VITAL that we get as much out of each day phase as possible.

In particular, I'd like to know what Chaz did last night. He was the one person who came forward with the result of his night one action, and I'm very interested in seeing what he says happened during night two.

[Nathaniel Havok]

Jan 11, 2013 23:10:20 GMT -4 A.C. Smith said:

In particular, I'd like to know what Chaz did last night. He was the one person who came forward with the result of his night one action, and I'm very interested in seeing what he says happened during night two.

A.C. Smith... Fish. I've seen enough fishing from you, but I don't really know if you're meaning to. But with how much I've seen you fishing this game, I've got you on my P.O.I. list. Just saying.

That being said, I wasn't able to do anything last night. Nothing to report. Still trying to figure this role out, too.

[Pepsi]

Jan 12, 2013 4:16:41 GMT -4 Nathaniel Havok said:

Jan 11, 2013 23:10:20 GMT -4 A.C. Smith said:

In particular, I'd like to know what Chaz did last night. He was the one person who came forward with the result of his night one action, and I'm very interested in seeing what he says happened during night two.

A.C. Smith... Fish. I've seen enough fishing from you, but I don't really know if you're meaning to. But with how much I've seen you fishing this game, I've got you on my P.O.I. list. Just saying.

That being said, I wasn't able to do anything last night. Nothing to report. Still trying to figure this role out, too.

I honestly don't think he was fishing. You were the only person to say anything about your night action after night 1. I think it's natural to be curious about night actions since we have nothing else to go on right now. If someone does have any info to help the town it would be nice to know.

[Jules]

Jan 12, 2013 4:16:41 GMT -4 Nathaniel Havok said:

That being said, I wasn't able to do anything last night. Nothing to report. Still trying to figure this role out, too.

What do you mean by this? Did you get any kind of message from the mod pertaining to your role? (And I'm not asking you to quote the PM.)

[A.C. Smith]

I have several reactions to Chaz's post.

Jan 12, 2013 4:16:41 GMT -4 Nathaniel Havok said:

A.C. Smith... Fish. I've seen enough fishing from you, but I don't really know if you're meaning to. But with how much I've seen you fishing this game, I've got you on my P.O.I. list. Just saying.

This is possibly the biggest pet peeve I have with Mafia games. If some players had done what I did, it would be considered good, solid, aggressive, "leading-the-town" play. Yet, because I did it, it's considered fishing. It's wrong, and that bothers me.

Pepsi and Jules were right in that Chaz was the only person to come forward with anything about his night one action. With that in mind, it was perfectly acceptable to ask if anything happened on night two.

Chaz, I didn't ask for your role, or for any specifics on what exactly your night action entails. However, your overreaction, and your counterclaim to me having "fished" multiple times (which is blatantly untrue), set off a ton of alarms with me. I'd like an explanation, and I'd like one quickly.

FOS: Chaz

[T-Marv]

AC was kinda fishing, but he wasn't the only one. There's been TOO much fishing TOO early in the game. It's day 3... we're down ONE townie, this is not quite time to panic just yet.

If you have GREAT info that will change the game (i.e. you know who McClane is, or who the godfather is 100%) then this would be a time to share that info. Otherwise, don't out yourselves just yet.

[T-Marv]

Jan 12, 2013 11:35:25 GMT -4 A.C. Smith said:

I have several reactions to Chaz's post.

Jan 12, 2013 4:16:41 GMT -4 Nathaniel Havok said:

A.C. Smith... Fish. I've seen enough fishing from you, but I don't really know if you're meaning to. But with how much I've seen you fishing this game, I've got you on my P.O.I. list. Just saying.

This is possibly the biggest pet peeve I have with Mafia games. If some players had done what I did, it would be considered good, solid, aggressive, "leading-the-town" play. Yet, because I did it, it's considered fishing. It's wrong, and that bothers me.

Pepsi and Jules were right in that Chaz was the only person to come forward with anything about his night one action. With that in mind, it was perfectly acceptable to ask if anything happened on night two.

Chaz, I didn't ask for your role, or for any specifics on what exactly your night action entails. However, your overreaction, and your counterclaim to me having "fished" multiple times (which is blatantly untrue), set off a ton of alarms with me. I'd like an explanation, and I'd like one quickly.

FOS: Chaz

It's not just cause you did it AC... I called Chaz out on it earlier and I'll call everyone out on it when they do it.

You're overly defensive and it's raising some red flags.

FOS: Smith

You define your play as "aggressive", I define it as reckless!

[A.C. Smith]

Jan 12, 2013 11:37:27 GMT -4 T-Marv said:

It's not just cause you did it AC... I called Chaz out on it earlier and I'll call everyone out on it when they do it.

You're overly defensive and it's raising some red flags.

FOS: Smith

You define your play as "aggressive", I define it as reckless!

I would like to know how what I did, asking Chaz about his night action, is ANY different than you, L-1, and others doing the exact same thing in prior games and getting off scot-free.

If you can rationally explain that, I will step back and yield to any and all other ideas about how the town can get anything resembling information. But so far, those avenues have gotten us nothing.

Forgive me for trying to change that.

[Mark Mania]

Speede was the first one fishing back on day one and he's been inactive since. Possible role block on him and he doesn't know how to rebound?

[KJE]

Right now there are three we are still waiting on, hopefully one, if not more, have some info for us.


3. Bryan Deas
8. Kurt Noble
12. Roy Speed

[T-Marv]

Jan 12, 2013 11:45:27 GMT -4 A.C. Smith said:

Jan 12, 2013 11:37:27 GMT -4 T-Marv said:

It's not just cause you did it AC... I called Chaz out on it earlier and I'll call everyone out on it when they do it.

You're overly defensive and it's raising some red flags.

FOS: Smith

You define your play as "aggressive", I define it as reckless!

I would like to know how what I did, asking Chaz about his night action, is ANY different than you, L-1, and others doing the exact same thing in prior games and getting off scot-free.

If you can rationally explain that, I will step back and yield to any and all other ideas about how the town can get anything resembling information. But so far, those avenues have gotten us nothing.

Forgive me for trying to change that.

You're doing it WAY too early!

If you can't scum hunt without needing Night info to do it, then you shouldn't play this game.

Do you want our RB to out himself this early? or worse yet, our doctor? Maybe we get get ONE scum out of the deal but probably we get none.

What if Chaz is one of those power roles, and he answers your question. he outs himself, most likely gives us NO info to go off of and Scum have a brilliant target next couple phases.

If you really want to talk about past game play (metagaming), which is not a good way to scum hunt at all, then let's talk about you AC. You're playing a completely different game from normal, which leads me to believe you're on the scum team.

two points.

1. When Level One and I are aggressive in past games, it's usually cause we've got something to go off of. You're taking pot shots at Chaz, wanting him to out himself for no real reason.

2. I said in an earlier post that you were NOT the only one fishing....but you are the only one getting pissy about getting called out on it. That leads me to believe you're hiding something.

[A.C. Smith]

Jan 12, 2013 18:19:29 GMT -4 T-Marv said:

2. I said in an earlier post that you were NOT the only one fishing....but you are the only one getting pissy about getting called out on it. That leads me to believe you're hiding something.

Nothing at all to hide. I said in a past post that I do not have an offensive role, one where I can choose to use something on someone or do something to them. If there's any other questions you and Chaz have, I'd be delighted to answer them.

[T-Marv]

no other questions... I've made my points.

And by the way, saying "I do not have an offensive role" does not clear you.... I could say I was the queen of England. Doesn't make it any more true.

I think you're scum, but the evidence just isn't there. No need putting a vote on you on just a gut feeling yet.... that's turned out to be costly in previous games. I'm trying to play this one smarter.

I'd rather not dwell on it and explore other avenues if anyone has any.