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Post by Victor Hades on Sept 9, 2009 2:42:37 GMT -4
Okay, I'm a HUGE die-hard UFC fan...I've got my favorites in all weight classes. But the one thing that's gotten under my skin more than ANYTHING about watching it now days, is Dana's work with the Heavyweight division.
SERIOUSLY.
Brock is a freak. athlete.
Yes, he just so happens to be one of my favorites, but without blowing my load all over his current UFC reputation, I'd also love to see someone come in and certainly give the guy a run for his money if not beat his ass around.
Dana already fucked up with Fedor...the man was OFFERED...OVER 4 MILLION....FOUR....MILLION... and FEDOR turned DANA down. That just goes to show how whacked out that company is getting. I mean, yes he makes mistakes and makes a shitload of good investments. But man, pretty soon there won't be much competition in the Heavyweight division.
Machida, Silva, GSP, Penn-those guys have such incredible ability and such a wide base of competition. Those guys could really go either way they wanted. I know it's not easy for some to jump weight class, being a MMA "fighter" still in my third year of training myself. But damn...something needs to happen.
Kimbo is in the house. Okay. Sounds good. So Dana signs Kimbo this big deal and pretty nice contract, then what? Guaranteed after the second fight if not the first he puts him up against Brock. That is with the exception Brock is still champ. Brock beats Kimbo. Then what. I'm hoping with the more training he's getting, Kimbo is going to be a hell of a lot better than his last fight. But damn....
Who else is left...
Cro Cop?
Couture?
Gonzaga?
Herring?
Mir?
Nogueira? (next on Brock's pummel til the bell rings list.)
I mean really. There is hardly any REAL stiff competition right now. Dana better pull a freaking miracle. or he can kiss his heavyweight division buh-bye.
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Post by Assassin on Sept 9, 2009 2:51:12 GMT -4
I agree with you. It's hard to actually find any good fights in the heavyweight division anymore. Every other division has damn good fights, Hopefully someone good come out of this new TUF that there doing otherwise the divison might just fall even deeper into the crapper.
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Post by Victor Hades on Sept 9, 2009 2:56:25 GMT -4
Yeah, Lashley-Bobby freaking Lashley believe it or not is training/fighting on a very disclosed and underground circuit right now. The man is a freaking abomination in the ring, just swings like a tank man. If he gets signed, god I hope he does some damage. Currently undefeated too.
TUF and WXC or whatever it's called better start pulling something into UFC though, fast.
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J-Mart
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Post by J-Mart on Sept 9, 2009 11:39:20 GMT -4
Kongo?
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"The Hottest Shit Going"
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Lights out, thats all she wrote, cancel Christmas, the kitchen is closed!!!
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Post by "The Hottest Shit Going" on Sept 9, 2009 11:51:40 GMT -4
Well you should look out for November. Shane Carwin is stepping up to face Brock. I hope Brock wins, and if he tries to stand with Carwin he might not. This guy should be able to test out Lesnar's chin real well. I just hope Brocks ego doesn't get in the way, this guy has heavy hands. Lesnar needs to stick with his game plans of smoothering a guy and lunch box his face untill he bleeds or dies from face swelling. Should be a great fight though.
Also Marcus Jones on the next TUF show is a real prospect. Kimbo is a non factor...no skill for MMA, no stamina, and I feel no discipline. Marcus Jones a former NFL player from Tamba Bay, a two student of Gracie Tampa and thought to be unstopable by his instructors at Gracie Tampa. I"m not sure, but he surely could explode into the next big thing.
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Post by Level-Two on Sept 9, 2009 12:29:45 GMT -4
Dana didn't fuck up with Fedor. This deal was IMPOSSIBLE at this point in time. Whatever Pay-per-view Fedor was set to be in, M-1 they wanted HALF of the profits from the event or some ridicolous amout of money, as a co-promotor of the event. Fedor isn't worth that much, that's insane.
On the other side of the coin, Fedor has investments into M-1; he needs to have them working with the UFC when he signs, or it tanks. So, it was a bad buisness deal for both of them. It wasn't going to happen.
But yeah, the heavyweight division needs some life pumped into them. TUF Heavyweights should really bring a few guys to the table in the long run; While Kimbo lost a lot of his heat, he still has some hype around him, he's the poster boy for this season.
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Post by Victor Hades on Sept 9, 2009 14:39:43 GMT -4
Dana didn't fuck up with Fedor. This deal was IMPOSSIBLE at this point in time. Whatever Pay-per-view Fedor was set to be in, M-1 they wanted HALF of the profits from the event or some ridicolous amout of money, as a co-promotor of the event. Fedor isn't worth that much, that's insane. Ohhhh, see what I was told was that Fedor and Dana had a disagreement about the price and Fedor wasn't going to fight unless he made a big amount from it or something. I agree though, he would've made a huge difference but it wasn't the right time. That'd be really interesting to see if all these guys do start getting pulled into the Heavyweight division though. I'm sure more eyes would be focused on UFC by then as well, so you know ratings are going to start climbing. Anyone know if Bob Sapp is still fighting anymore? |
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Post by Streets Wilson on Sept 9, 2009 16:23:12 GMT -4
i only liked the UFC back in the day when there weren't as many rules and it was style vs style type shit and faces would get dented. And some of you may know my feeling on brazillian jujitsu already but: fuck that pussy shit. Fucking.. Royce Gracie had the fucking nerve to send my father a letter saying his style was ineffective... fuck that. Gracie's don't know what the fuck an effective style even looks like. The patriarch of the whole family's claim to fame was getting his ass beaten and his ear ripped off by a Judo guy, and then I was supposed to be impressed because he never actually "gave up". You don't need to give up, you can just get beaten. Back to the topic at hand though: maybe its just me and my bias for actual martial arts but... why is it that every single person they sign has to do the same bullshit Jujitsu/boxing combination or whatever that every single other person does. Thats why I loved the old UFC. You'd see the karate guy vs the Jujitsu guy or something to that extent and it was exciting to me. Now its basically like 2 clones going at it. With a few exceptions of course.
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J-Mart
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Post by J-Mart on Sept 9, 2009 17:22:05 GMT -4
I think Kongo would give Lesnar a fight.
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Post by Level-Two on Sept 9, 2009 18:20:25 GMT -4
I think Bob Sapp is fighting for Strikeforce, now. The last fight he had I believe was against Bobby Lashley, whom he was beaten by.
I'm not even going to adress the jumbo mumble Streets has written in detail; obviously, a well rounded althlete is more effective then someone who specializes in one main type of fight styles. Those guys would get fucking smashed against a well rounded competitor; and that's why it no longer exists. It's changed for the better, and their popularity has grown much larger. You can't aruge facts.
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Post by Victor Hades on Sept 9, 2009 18:20:46 GMT -4
If Kongo can keep a good stand-up/boxing game he'd be a good fight.
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Post by natebroadway on Sept 9, 2009 18:57:43 GMT -4
i only liked the UFC back in the day when there weren't as many rules and it was style vs style type shit and faces would get dented. And some of you may know my feeling on brazillian jujitsu already but: fuck that pussy shit. Fucking.. Royce Gracie had the fucking nerve to send my father a letter saying his style was ineffective... fuck that. Gracie's don't know what the fuck an effective style even looks like. The patriarch of the whole family's claim to fame was getting his ass beaten and his ear ripped off by a Judo guy, and then I was supposed to be impressed because he never actually "gave up". You don't need to give up, you can just get beaten. Back to the topic at hand though: maybe its just me and my bias for actual martial arts but... why is it that every single person they sign has to do the same bullshit Jujitsu/boxing combination or whatever that every single other person does. Thats why I loved the old UFC. You'd see the karate guy vs the Jujitsu guy or something to that extent and it was exciting to me. Now its basically like 2 clones going at it. With a few exceptions of course. I think it's funny that you curse BJJ and Royce, when Royce beat everyone he faced. I'm sure you will argue that who he faced was shit...but then why say you liked it better back then? The truth of the matter is that BJJ IS effective. I'm a smaller guy, and I have fought all types of art forms, and physiques. And because of my wrestling and BJJ, I won. Now, not everyone in the UFC does the same thing, styles are different but it takes a trained eye to see that. It may look the same, but most combat sports have some similarity to each of the fighters. Is BJJ the most effective form? That will be debated, just like every other art form in existence. Time and time again, wrestlers prove they are more athletic. But I think a lot of that is psychological, and I won't go into that. I want you to give me a fighter, that you do like. Also give me a few from the era of MMA that you like. I'm curious who you admire. On topic: Shane Carwin won't beat Brock. And I won't bother telling you why. When the time comes, you will see that I was right. Kongo, Brock would steam roll just like he did Heath Herring. And Kimbo Slice will fucking DIE against Brock. I'm not on Brocks dick, don't worry, but the truth of the matter is that a specimen like him was being held back in the WWE. In the UFC, all that testosterone, all that muscle, all that rage can finally be let out. And when he turns it on, he knocks people out. For fuck sake, he was laying on his stomach, postured up balancing on the lower part of his stomach, holding Frank Mir (a big man) in place with his left and hand punching him with his right....leading to a TKO. That, has never been done before. Let alone to a BJJ black belt who has proven on circuits beyond the UFC that he jujitsu is deadly. Broadway |
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Post by Streets Wilson on Sept 9, 2009 20:37:47 GMT -4
I think Bob Sapp is fighting for Strikeforce, now. The last fight he had I believe was against Bobby Lashley, whom he was beaten by. I'm not even going to adress the jumbo mumble Streets has written in detail; obviously, a well rounded althlete is more effective then someone who specializes in one main type of fight styles. Those guys would get fucking smashed against a well rounded competitor; and that's why it no longer exists. It's changed for the better, and their popularity has grown much larger. You can't aruge facts. How is it that every time i make a statement people counter with weird bullshit... I'm not saying the earlier people would beat the now "well rounded" fighters I'm saying it was more entertaining to watch style vs style fights than every single fight being "mma" vs "mma". And there is such a thing as a real well rounded style and it isn't anything like the stupid bullshit they pass as "martial arts" nowadays. Recognize that brazillian jujitsu and mma are sports, they ARE NOT for self defense, and that may seem irrevelivent in a coversation about the UFC but what I'm saying is the Gracie's are retarded because I've seen the stupid commercials for their bullshit self defense dvd. Brazillian Jujitsu is a watered down version of Judo, which is a watered down version of real Jujitsu (japanese), and when the Gracies come up against real martial artists... well... do the research |
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Post by Streets Wilson on Sept 9, 2009 20:47:04 GMT -4
i only liked the UFC back in the day when there weren't as many rules and it was style vs style type shit and faces would get dented. And some of you may know my feeling on brazillian jujitsu already but: fuck that pussy shit. Fucking.. Royce Gracie had the fucking nerve to send my father a letter saying his style was ineffective... fuck that. Gracie's don't know what the fuck an effective style even looks like. The patriarch of the whole family's claim to fame was getting his ass beaten and his ear ripped off by a Judo guy, and then I was supposed to be impressed because he never actually "gave up". You don't need to give up, you can just get beaten. Back to the topic at hand though: maybe its just me and my bias for actual martial arts but... why is it that every single person they sign has to do the same bullshit Jujitsu/boxing combination or whatever that every single other person does. Thats why I loved the old UFC. You'd see the karate guy vs the Jujitsu guy or something to that extent and it was exciting to me. Now its basically like 2 clones going at it. With a few exceptions of course. I think it's funny that you curse BJJ and Royce, when Royce beat everyone he faced. I'm sure you will argue that who he faced was shit...but then why say you liked it better back then? The truth of the matter is that BJJ IS effective. I'm a smaller guy, and I have fought all types of art forms, and physiques. And because of my wrestling and BJJ, I won. Now, not everyone in the UFC does the same thing, styles are different but it takes a trained eye to see that. It may look the same, but most combat sports have some similarity to each of the fighters. Is BJJ the most effective form? That will be debated, just like every other art form in existence. Time and time again, wrestlers prove they are more athletic. But I think a lot of that is psychological, and I won't go into that. I want you to give me a fighter, that you do like. Also give me a few from the era of MMA that you like. I'm curious who you admire. On topic: Shane Carwin won't beat Brock. And I won't bother telling you why. When the time comes, you will see that I was right. Kongo, Brock would steam roll just like he did Heath Herring. And Kimbo Slice will fucking DIE against Brock. I'm not on Brocks dick, don't worry, but the truth of the matter is that a specimen like him was being held back in the WWE. In the UFC, all that testosterone, all that muscle, all that rage can finally be let out. And when he turns it on, he knocks people out. For fuck sake, he was laying on his stomach, postured up balancing on the lower part of his stomach, holding Frank Mir (a big man) in place with his left and hand punching him with his right....leading to a TKO. That, has never been done before. Let alone to a BJJ black belt who has proven on circuits beyond the UFC that he jujitsu is deadly. Broadway Oh really..., I'm sorry but I can't fathom that somebody who claims to have a "trained eye" could not realize that the UFC are for the most part pampered and that they basically specifically train on how to do shit improperly. I mean, just look at the dozens of videos of them snapping their legs trying to do a leg kick... And I just explained in the post you quoted how the Gracie Patriarch dude got his ass kicked all over the damn place by the Judo dude so... there you go. and Royce was defeated by Matt Hughes, he's not undefeated, not that it would matter in relation to my point in the first place anyway, which was that its just not entertaining when every single person does the same shit (Brazilian jujitsu) Ken Shamrock was my favorite fighter. And I know he lost to Royce... |
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Post by Level-Two on Sept 9, 2009 22:42:53 GMT -4
Sigh. Okay, I see what your trying to say. You like Style vs. Style fights; I disagree with that, but that's your opinion. However what you need to understand is that the UFC is MIXED martial arts. Not just Judo. Not just BJJ. Not just boxing. Not just wrestling. So, the UFC today actually more in touch with the art, then it had been in the past. You dislike the sport for EXACTLY what it is, which is fucking stupid. If a well rounded fighter is more likely to beat a guy, who only knows to throw fists--then why won't you become a more well rounded fighter? You do not like the fact everyone is well rounded and you prefer an unbalanced fight, but this isn't effective. You as fan, should WANT to see the most effective competitors in the ring or cage. I admit flat out; you probably understand the origins of these fight styles far more indepth then I do, so I'm going to speak about what I know. It just seems counterproductive you want to see fighters of a lower caliber in the ring/octagon. As for the whole breaking legs because the fighters don't know how to kick? It's just bullshit. You can throw a kick and catch the wrong place on target and injure yourself, but that doesn't mean you don't know how to kick properly. I also love your ''he was beaten by a JUDO guy so...'' Yeah, so fucking what? I don't think that makes a style any less effective. BJJ is effective, get the fuck over it. Not all fighters are specialists at BJJ. They know how to defend and they practise it, because it's the only way to fucking survive once that bell rings. However, I doubt you'll see Brock Lesnar pulling out Arm Bars and Leg locks anytime soon. Brock Lesnar is going to lay ontop of you and pound your skull in. And of course the hate on the Gracies. It seems like you just flat out despise famous art forms, like a tweleve year old trying to be some cool ''rebel'' that goes against the grain. If it isn't the Gracies, it's Tupac and the Beattles.  |
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Post by natebroadway on Sept 9, 2009 22:58:45 GMT -4
Judo is a watered down version of Jujitsu? You are a quite honestly ignorant in this subject. Judo was a culmination of all the practical moves that jujitsu and other "do" were made up of. Jigoro Kano proved his art form, and nothing you say deducts from that truth.
Yes, Hughes beat Royce, my reference was in regards to the era you prefer, and how the art form you hate was proven to be superior. If your favorite fighter was Ken Shamrock, than everything you have to say about Martial Arts in general is a bold face lie. No martial artist ever looked at Shamrock and thought he was a great fighter, let alone a martial artist. Shamrock was first and foremost an entertainer, involved in the wrestling business long before he ever fought for the UFC. But his arrogance took him into the octagon, and his athleticism helped him win.
You know nothing of Martial Arts, and I quote Level-One
"It seems like you just flat out despise famous art forms, like a twelve year old trying to be some cool ''rebel'' that goes against the grain. If it isn't the Gracies, it's Tupac and the Beatles."
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Post by Streets Wilson on Sept 9, 2009 23:13:11 GMT -4
i already said I liked the beatles, i just thought they were overated, and I don't like 2pac music i like biggie... I suppose since I don't like Jujitsu I despise "all famous martial arts"
I like Ken Shamrock because I'm a fan of catch wrestling...
maybe its to hard for you retards to realize this but not everybody on earth subscribes to the exact same bullshit that "most" people do. I don't have to like or respect shit that you do and its time you realize that theres people out there that don't agree with you so intead of attempting to insult maybe you should try and say something substantial. Once again let me just reiterate all the shit you somehow misinterpreted, I don't have some weird hate for random martial arts, I just don't fucking beleive in jujitsu as one of the better styles out there. and its straight fact that Jujitsu is an offshoot of Judo so say some shit now
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Post by Level-Two on Sept 9, 2009 23:19:09 GMT -4
Are you ready?
For the Irony?
Yeah, calls us retards. Totally proves your point, with the personal un-needed attack. Nobody disrespect anything, JUST you right from the gate.
You lose.
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Post by Streets Wilson on Sept 9, 2009 23:21:09 GMT -4
Sigh. Okay, I see what your trying to say. You like Style vs. Style fights; I disagree with that, but that's your opinion. However what you need to understand is that the UFC is MIXED martial arts. Not just Judo. Not just BJJ. Not just boxing. Not just wrestling. So, the UFC today actually more in touch with the art, then it had been in the past. You dislike the sport for EXACTLY what it is, which is fucking stupid. If a well rounded fighter is more likely to beat a guy, who only knows to throw fists--then why won't you become a more well rounded fighter? You do not like the fact everyone is well rounded and you prefer an unbalanced fight, but this isn't effective. You as fan, should WANT to see the most effective competitors in the ring or cage. I admit flat out; you probably understand the origins of these fight styles far more indepth then I do, so I'm going to speak about what I know. It just seems counterproductive you want to see fighters of a lower caliber in the ring/octagon. As for the whole breaking legs because the fighters don't know how to kick? It's just bullshit. You can throw a kick and catch the wrong place on target and injure yourself, but that doesn't mean you don't know how to kick properly. I also love your ''he was beaten by a JUDO guy so...'' Yeah, so fucking what? I don't think that makes a style any less effective. BJJ is effective, get the fuck over it. Not all fighters are specialists at BJJ. "They know how to defend and they practise it, because it's the only way to fucking survive once that bell rings." However, I doubt you'll see Brock Lesnar pulling out Arm Bars and Leg locks anytime soon. Brock Lesnar is going to lay ontop of you and pound your skull in. And of course the hate on the Gracies. It seems like you just flat out despise famous art forms, like a tweleve year old trying to be some cool ''rebel'' that goes against the grain. If it isn't the Gracies, it's Tupac and the Beattles. This is exactly what I'm talking about... "They know how to defend and they practise it, because it's the only way to fucking survive once that bell rings." Wrong... Theirs way more grappling styles than just jujitsu, and theirs way more striking arts than just boxing and kickboxing. thats my point. I don't think someone should purposely only train in one aspect of fighting (OBVIOUSLY) I'm trying to say the UFC only recruits people who do BJJ for some reason and it pisses me off a lot. Like I mentioned, the submission moves from BJJ are from Judo, right there you must realize there's other grappling styles. I mentioned the judo guy beating the Grace because people were for some reason acting as if the Gracies were indestructible when they get beaten just like everybody else does. |
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Post by Streets Wilson on Sept 9, 2009 23:22:24 GMT -4
Are you ready?For the Irony?Yeah, calls us retards. Totally proves your point, with the personal un-needed attack. Nobody disrespect anything, JUST you right from the gate. You lose. I was just responding to yours unsults actually... I win |
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Post by Level-Two on Sept 9, 2009 23:27:14 GMT -4
Are you ready?For the Irony?Yeah, calls us retards. Totally proves your point, with the personal un-needed attack. Nobody disrespect anything, JUST you right from the gate. You lose. I was just responding to yours unsults actually... I win Yeah, unfortunately your incapable of doing so in one post. Have fun with that win. You fail with the first sentance. If you do not know how to defend yourself against a submission, you'll be tapped out once you hit the ground. The UFC doesn't only recruit BJJ specialists, but there is more often then not, because the fighters THEMSELFS believe and have proven it's an effective style. |
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Post by Streets Wilson on Sept 9, 2009 23:30:32 GMT -4
are you serious? THERE'S MORE STYLES THAN JUST BJJ. THOSE SUBMISSIONS AREN'T EXCLUSIVE... I just said it in like 5 posts in a row. BJJ is not the only grappling style.... what the fuck... I happen to think its not one of the better ones, if you don't agree whatever. I didn't set out to insult anyone here
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J-Mart
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Post by J-Mart on Sept 9, 2009 23:33:31 GMT -4
Boxing and wrestling can be all you need to kick someone's ass in MMA.
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Post by Level-Two on Sept 9, 2009 23:34:05 GMT -4
are you serious? THERE'S MORE STYLES THAN JUST BJJ. THOSE SUBMISSIONS AREN'T EXCLUSIVE... I just said it in like 5 posts in a row. BJJ is not the only grappling style.... what the fuck... I happen to think its not one of the better ones, if you don't agree whatever. I didn't set out to insult anyone here Jesus christ... I didn't fucking say that BJJ is the only grappling style. I am saying, that you can wrestle and judo throw all you fucking want, but the art of submissions are quick and dangerous, and if you cannot defend it once you hit the gound you'll be tapped out. If you want to branch out and get specific with submission styles, go ahead. I don't give a fuck. I don't care if the submission is a judo based submission; I'm talking about the art of making someone tap out, period. |
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Post by Streets Wilson on Sept 9, 2009 23:39:04 GMT -4
and I'm STILL saying, BJJ submissions are almost all taken directly from Judo, meaning theres also several more SUBMISSION arts as well. Which goes back to my first original point which I may be reading this wrong but you seem to be proving it. There's way more submission styles than BJJ... that's what I've been saying: I enjoy it a lot more when different styles go against each other. Ken Shamrock (wrestling) vs Gracie (BJJ) and shit You can defend against it if your good at another grappling style: like Judo or Chin Na, or Japanese Jujitsu, etc
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Post by Streets Wilson on Sept 9, 2009 23:40:35 GMT -4
and thats why I said BJJ is a watered down version of Judo, because its pretty much straight up just Judo without the throws
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Post by Level-Two on Sept 9, 2009 23:49:29 GMT -4
The problem is, I have been using words like ''Submissions'' and you keep saying other fight styles are more effective. If you would've said what these styles were a long time ago; we wouldn't have this back and forth. I've stated that you probably know these other styles, better then I do. I'm aware of SOME of the other fight styles; but not all of them. The point is, BJJ is sought by the majority to be the best fight style on ground. The UFC is sought to have the majority of the best fighters in the world; BJJ has been proven effective time and time again. Perhaps if these other styles were more effective, they would be used more often, no? As long as you are aware that your opinion is a minority and technically proven otherwise on paper, then we're all good to go. On with your day. EDIT- I also hope you realize, I posted a full arguement, and you referred to one line, which I wrote. Pretaining to a previous topic, I had stated I didn't know much about. As long as you know this wasn't even my original point...  |
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Post by Streets Wilson on Sept 10, 2009 0:03:34 GMT -4
no buddy... bjj also has a de-emphasis on ground joint locking and certian things like that because like I said its designed for sport and even more so than Judo is. And Judo is the BJJ to real Jujitsu (japanese). Why are you admitting you don't know as much as me and then trying to say things like you do. I meant exactly what I said its "watered down", its not as good... theres really no debating it, one is designed to kill people (japanese Jujitsu) one "can" be used to kill people (judo) and one restricts the rules and things your not allowed to do even making it virtually useless when it comes down to reality. Its a bullshit style... there really is no debate. There is only the truth which is BJJ is desinged to be ineffective. The changes it made from judo were designed almost specifically to enhance its quality as a spectator sport. (hence practicing how to do shit the wrong way) Brazillian Jujitsu is the laughing stock of the martial arts world... They do shit like claim to invent certain submission holds, when really... as everybody already knows their taken directly from Judo. Although most of what I'm saying is unfair to BJJ because its specifically designed for sport like that, your somehow trying to say its the best, when clearly thats impossible because its not even a real art: its just a even more watered down sport version of Judo.
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Post by natebroadway on Sept 10, 2009 0:47:36 GMT -4
You know absolutely nothing about martial arts Street. Besides, if you care so much about martial arts, you wouldn't cuss so much. I would be more than willing to debate this topic with you if you actually knew more about the art forms that you are talking about. But you obviously don't, so I will move on from this.
Level, as hard as it is to let morons walk freely among us, let it go man. No one that reads this guys posts will ever be enlightened. So lets move on to happier things.
Broadway
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Post by Streets Wilson on Sept 10, 2009 1:07:33 GMT -4
your a dumbass... I guess you got me there... I swear so I must not know anything abou- oh wait a minute... that makes absolutely no sense... retard
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