Hitman: Mafia Discussion Thread (DAY FOUR)

[Kris]

Apr 4, 2012 17:34:40 GMT -4 Blade said:

Apr 4, 2012 17:22:13 GMT -4 Michael Jennings said:

wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Lover

Alright something isn't adding up for me here. If they were connected then Kris would be dead now which means that either Kris isn't the sibling or it's a set up. I think there's a set up being done right now and Kris is the clear target of it hence I'm still in skeptic mode about this entire situation.

Not necessarily.

The link that Jeff has for the newbie guide here is the flash one which is

www.sitesled.com/members/mikeburnfire/mafiascum04.swf


and to quote the sibling role

"The siblings are comprised of one pro-mafia player and one pro-town player (usually a copy). If one of them dies, then the other commits suicide the following night"

So unless this is an Uber modified role, kris claiming to have new found 1-shots doesnt make sense

You hit the nail on the head, Blade.

[T-Marv]

Well, since my role has been uber modified...i can see this happening in this game.

However, I don't buy it. Since Branden Died you get a one shot role? How convenient on the day you are most likely to be lynched that you just so happen to have a one shot role that may guarantee you make it to the next day.

Sorry, I'm not convinced.

Vote: Kris

[Level-Two]

That's something I don't get myself, JamesV-- just why Lester's so desperate to lynch me. I mean, he always fiercely defends himself, right? And he's done so to similar levels as I did against Branden in the past, even in the face of "just one vote". When he does it, it's perfectly legitimate and should be believed, but when someone else does it? Why, they're scum and need to be lynched!

And guess what? I was scum everytime. In every game I was scum, I was lynched ''defending myself so fiercely''; mind you, even then I never resorted to calling people stupid and throwing a fit.

Not to mention the post I made today didn't even mention your reply to Branden Harvey, it was based on him flipping Fritz. Of course, you ignore all this.

I mean, if we're talking about past gameplay, me losing my cool is about the best proof of me being town that there is since if I were scum? I'd be laying low right now, contributing enough to seem credible without drawing too much attention to myself.

Pretty much the exact same thing you were doing before Branden Harvey put you on blast?

Again, we're over the Harvey bitchfest you gave him. How about addressing the actual points I've put forth?

As of just now I just realized I missed this post...

Yes, although I didn't know it.

What I do know, though, is that his death has given me a one-shot ability that I need to point in the right direction to be beneficial, so... yeah. If someone could point me in the direction that y'all want me to go-- toward actual scum, since I stand by my assertion that I am town and the flavor will back me up on that, if you look closely enough--I'll make up for how I blew up on Branden.

Nice.

So, rather then dying... you got a one shot power instead after your sibling died. Oh, in addition to that you're also a townie.

Way to explain that one a way, did your scum buddies help you come up with that one?

[Kris]

Nope, because I don't have any scum buddies.

Nice try, though.

[Kris]

Anyway, I invited any and all investigative roles to take a crack at me to verify that I am town. Did anyone take me up on it beyond Jules watching me?

[Level-Two]

You hit the nail on the head, Blade.

You know you just agreed with Blade saying you're probably lying, right?

The fact that you're now asking people to come out and clear you makes me think you purposefully didn't use your role if you had one. Otherwise, you'd simply sit back and wait for someone to clear you naturally without asking, especially when you aren't close to a lynch.

Nonetheless, I rest my case. Almost everyone here has a mind of their own which is unfortunate for you.

[Phil Atken]

You know, I have to agree, asking for investigation results on you comes across to me as the godfather defense Kris, it just doesn't ring true to me.

vote: Kris

[Michael Jennings]

Apr 4, 2012 17:39:17 GMT -4 Level-Two said:

Alright something isn't adding up for me here. If they were connected then Kris would be dead now which means that either Kris isn't the sibling or it's a set up. I think there's a set up being done right now and Kris is the clear target of it hence I'm still in skeptic mode about this entire situation.

Why is me voting for Kris suspicious?

Harvey said he's connected with Kris. He flipped Fritz. I looked at the flavour and Fritz has a brother Franz.

Harvey says he misred his role and thought he had to lynch Kris (thinking he was a lyncher) but was actually just his sibling in the game.

That's where he got Kris's name from. That has answered the question I've been asking all day phase.

What is this so called ''set up'' your speaking about? Harvey got his dumb ass lynched.

There is no question, Kris is Franz. Whether or not she's scum aligned or town aligned is the question and I explicitly have stated why I think she's scum aligned.

If Kris is town why didn't she die? And what would be the point of her role considering she acted as if she had no idea her and branden were related?

Farq's info is valid but not fool proof. Kris was a prime suspect yesterday and could have opted out not to use her power role if she had one.

Your defence of her has drawn suspicion in my eyes.

Defense of Kris? That's stretching it. This entire scenario is way to fucking convenient for my liking and that's the truth. If Kris didn't die then there's something seriously wrong if in face she is the sibling of Harvey. You can be suspicious all you want but I smell some BS with this entire thing and that's the bottom line about it.

Apr 4, 2012 17:34:40 GMT -4 Blade said:

Apr 4, 2012 17:22:13 GMT -4 Michael Jennings said:

wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Lover

Alright something isn't adding up for me here. If they were connected then Kris would be dead now which means that either Kris isn't the sibling or it's a set up. I think there's a set up being done right now and Kris is the clear target of it hence I'm still in skeptic mode about this entire situation.

Not necessarily.

The link that Jeff has for the newbie guide here is the flash one which is

www.sitesled.com/members/mikeburnfire/mafiascum04.swf


and to quote the sibling role

"The siblings are comprised of one pro-mafia player and one pro-town player (usually a copy). If one of them dies, then the other commits suicide the following night"

So unless this is an Uber modified role, kris claiming to have new found 1-shots doesnt make sense

The role is either modified or there was a fuck up because if all of this were true Kris would be dead now unless she was protected but I find that highly unlikely. Like I said, I smell BS.

Apr 4, 2012 17:54:10 GMT -4 Level-Two said:

Yes, although I didn't know it.

What I do know, though, is that his death has given me a one-shot ability that I need to point in the right direction to be beneficial, so... yeah. If someone could point me in the direction that y'all want me to go-- toward actual scum, since I stand by my assertion that I am town and the flavor will back me up on that, if you look closely enough--I'll make up for how I blew up on Branden.

Nice.

So, rather then dying... you got a one shot power instead after your sibling died. Oh, in addition to that you're also a townie.

Way to explain that one a way, did your scum buddies help you come up with that one?

If this were true then the scum team are a bunch of fucking idiots because nobody would buy that.

To sum it up, I'm in major skeptic mode about this whole thing.

[Michael Jennings]

Apr 4, 2012 18:21:52 GMT -4 Phil Atken said:

You know, I have to agree, asking for investigation results on you comes across to me as the godfather defense Kris, it just doesn't ring true to me.

vote: Kris

In the Hitman series would the Franz character be a candidate to be the Godfather?

[Michael Jennings]

Nevermind. Here's the post for reference.

Mar 29, 2012 18:01:00 GMT -4 Jules said:

I've been looking at the wikipedia on this video game, and I think, based on 15 players, we have two possibilities...

11 town, 3 scum, 1 third party
11 town, 4 scum

I've based this on the characters that, to my knowledge, or at least what I can quote from wikipedia, are found in the video game this mafia game is based on.

Town characters (flavours)

Dr. Ort-Meyer (the big boss)
Pablo Ochoa (drug lord)
Lee Hong (triad boss)
HK Police Chief
Franz Fuchs (terrorist)
Boris Jegorov (weapons smuggler)
Odon Kovacs (doctor) - probably town doctor
Blue Lotus Emissary (triad linked)
Fritz Fuchs (terrorist, brother of Franz)
Ivan Zilvanovich (associate of Boris)
Tzun or Mei-Ling - I think the final flavour character is one these. Tzun is a bodyguard for Lee Hong; Mei-Ling is a prostitute. I'm inclined to go with the former though since he is definitely aligned with Lee Hong.

Scum

Agent 47 (obviously) - likely the scum hitman/assassin/killer etc.
Diana - gives she 47 his order, so likely to be the GF.
Agent Smith - wiki says he is an incompetent SECRET agent linked to CIA and The Agency. Possible RBer, or some kind of scum investigative role (e.g. role cop). Possibly impervious to detection by cops, although Diana is known only by her voice in the games so she may have this power.

Possible Third Party

Mr.48s - a bunch of clones that Agent 47 has to kill off at the end of the game. I'm not sure if these would definitely be third party, but this is as close to one I could find in the game's wiki.

If no third party I would say 4 scum, not sure who the fourth would be, maybe Mei-Ling as a goon.

[Phil Atken]

Honestly, I try not to get caught up in game flavour ever. To me Kris may not be the godfather but the entire defense she's just made over investigations seems like scum trying to get investigation cleared. It also outs a possible cop, making them a target for the mafia. So I guess what I'm saying is, Kris' actions seem to gel with scum to me.

[Michael Jennings]

But what I'm saying, going by Jules' list, then the Franz character would be town. Agent 47, Diana, and Agent Smith. The only option would be Diana who is likely the Godfather. As far as this situation is concerned the person I would like to hear an analysis from is Jules.

[President Jeff]

I’m finally able to read through everything and post.

I’m not an expert in this game, nor do I know/understand ALL the roles. Especially this sibling thing. From what I understand from what you guys are saying and the mafia guide, and correct me if I misunderstand something, One is town, one is scum. Branden came up town, so logically that means Kris is town. Also, if one dies, then the other dies the next night. Is it possible that because Branden got Lynched on Day two, it moves Kris committing Suicide on Night 3 in stead of Night 2. And this one shot thing that Kris supposedly has, is it possible that she got it cause her sibling died and she gets to kill someone before she kills herself. Or maybe she’s bluffing the one shot thing

I’m not sure what to make of it right now. The evidence is piling up on Kris of her being scum. I’m not gonna lay a vote down just yet, cause I’m not 100% convinced.

I don’t think we’ve heard from everyone yet, so I’m gonna wait and see if any new info comes out before I lay a vote down

[Reaver]

ok so this situation completely sounds fishy. and with all the evidence thats being provided i think its the safe bet.

[/b] VOTE: KRIS[/b]

between kris flipping out on harvey and this "newly added 1 shot ability", something just doesnt add up. im guessin she was tellin the truth when she said she was vanilla, BUT since her "brother" was lynched, she was given a 1 shot ability to kill when on her way out the door; so to speak. i highly suggest that whoever she has a hard on for get some sort of protection.

[Reaver]

ebwop

Vote:Kris

.....sorry

[Nathaniel Havok]

Been very buys, sorry guys. Work has been kicking the living shit out of me. I have however been keeping up on my night actions. In my visits over night, I have found out some interesting information. However, for you to trust me, you're going to have to follow me...

Night One
CJ Gates: Confirm as town!
Why: CJ is very smart, quick witted, and very good at these games. I respect the player that he is (in all games we play in APW), and see him as a threat if he is indeed mafia. However in my visit, information leads to him being town. It would have been easy for me to target a Harvey or Jeff, simply because we always give them shit in these games. But I'm playing this one right, and going with my gut.

Night Two
T-Marv: MAFIA!
Why: The "adding fuel to the fire" comment that he made, mixed with the little tiff he had with Harvey and Kris, both got me thinking. So, I decided to follow my gut once again, and information confirms that he is scum. Don't believe me? Find out for yourselves and vote this scum piece of trash off!

Which brings me to Harvey (who will remain Harvey in my posts due to 2 Brandens being in the game), and Kris... One of you two is/was playing along with your buddy T-Marv. Leaning towards Kris (for visiting Noble, I think you're the lacky), and I will find out. Because with the power I've got, this game shouldn't take too long at all.

This is for real, people. I'm being dead serious, trust me. Vote off T-Marv, and see for yourself. I'll lead this damn charge until they're all gone! If T-Marv were to turn up town, I'd be dead anyways next day. So dammit, trust me. I don't know how else to put it. If I end up dead in 2 to 3 nights, you'll know that I'm starting to scare them. So listen to me, and vote this bastard out of here!

VOTE: T-MARV

[T-Marv]

Lol... You obviously have never played a cop role before. You didn't check yourself night one? Rookie mistake.

I am 100% town. And if CJ came back as town for you, then he is most likely Scum, unless you're just lying your ass off. I tell you what, check yourself tonight...find out if you're guilty or innocent and in said case, you will (if you are town and not just lying your ass off) read as guilty and realize that you are insane.

Either way, it's good that you got one reading one night and one the other cause when you confirm that you're insane, then we know CJ is scum.

Doctor.... PROTECT CHAZ TONIGHT!!!!
Hell, if there's a roleblocker in town, go ahead and roleblock me if you want or you can take a shot and try to rb the killer.

But Chaz is wrong whether he's lying or insane.

[Nathaniel Havok]

I'll tell you what then T-Marv... If I can get any indication that the doctor will protect me in the next night faze (doctor, just throw me a bone, would ya?), then I will. HOWEVER, if I come back as town, then I'm pushing for a lynch. And for CJs sake... You better be wrong. However, if my night action clears you... I will indeed say that I'm sorry. Lol.

For now, I will not remove my vote, or jump on the Kris wagon (In fear of lynching someone whom might not be guilty. If she's lynched, means we just find out with my night action sooner rather than later). As of right now, in my book you're still scum (but we will test that theory). Understand, for now... And I will clear you if clearing is needed. Never been this roll before... So maybe a rookie mistake... Maybe not. But my gut... It's God damn good.

MOD NOTE: I NEVER ROLECLAIMED! Lol
ANOTHER NOTE: Dammit, I'm going to die early now... I friggin' know it! Shit!

[T-Marv]

TBH with you, if the Doctor comes out and says that he will protect you, then he will be killed IMO. But maybe he can drop a subtle hint? lol

I could try to Protect you, but with the way my night action works, I may end up killing you just the same so I think I'll skip an action tonight.

[Level-Two]

Interesting.

I'm not changing my vote, though. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Havok has been paying that much attention to this game. It's entirely possible that Havok's cop role has been altered in some way and I feel too sure about Kris to let her off the hook another night.

I say, lynch Kris-- hit scum in a likely scenario-- and it buys Havok time to check sanity because he isn't going to get killed.

Why? Because if he does we'll know if he's sane or not and we'll know if T-Marv is scum or not. At least scum keeping Havok alive would make the situation hearsay.

Either way, if T-Marv IS scum he's caught. So, let's get Kris first.

P.S - The bodyguard could have very well been our only doctor. Be careful with your claims people.

[Nathaniel Havok]

^^^ Shit, L1... I seriously might be fucked.

Fine, I'll bite. Let's get this night phase started... I'm ready to find out who's who.

UNvote
VOTE: KRIS

[Michael Jennings]

I'm still against this Kris lynch and if I'm wrong I'm wrong. Call it a gut feeling that this is a bad lynch. I do think TMarv and Gates should be looked into. One of them is scum for sure. This night phase will be very telling.

[Reaver]

regardless of wats transpiring now, at least we have future leads as to wat we have towards a game plan. i dont think i need to reiterate wat has already been said so ill end my daily post with a simple good luck.

[SalTal]

Ugh. I don't know what to make of Althusser. Jris should be dead, or (at the most exceptional) be dead this next night phase.

This one-shotting and all has me confused as Hell.

I really think that we should be looking at the CJ/TMarv/Chaz stuff more than this because we've got something concrete to go on. But it seems everyone else is captivated with the Kris/Branden anomalie.

If only so that we can move on ...

Vote: Kris

[C.J. Gates]

Okay, so now that I've had time to read over everything from today...

To Kris: As Level One pointed out, you agreed with Blade saying that what you're throwing down isn't believable. You also mentioned that Harvey was lying, but you realize he was only lying about you visiting noble (note to those who are still seeing her as the lackey to go after Noble, Branden admitted, I believe, that he made that part up). If Harvey was telling the truth that you two are connected and are siblings and he flipped one, I'm betting you're the other.

As far as the suicide thing goes, I could see a modified situation where the mod didn't add that part in because of numbers. A scum dying after what happened to their sibling would reduce the scum team in games where we don't have too many numbers to begin with. Maybe I'm wrong on that though, but Kris still rates extremely high on my scum radar.

To the Chaz Situation: I can say with 200% certainty that I am town, so if Chaz is a standard cop (with either sane/insane), then he is sane and TMarv is scum. The only way this is impossible is if Chaz is a random cop (I believe). Will anyone buy that I am 200% town? No, probably not because it doesn't work that way, but I am. And knowing that I am, I am so inclined to vote for Marvin.

What's stopping me?

Kris sits one vote from a lynch. Part of me wants to be the hammer so that we can see what we're dealing with in regards to her, but part of me is also leaning toward Chaz's scum read on Marvin. And you know what? I'm willing to role the dice. Kris' one shot is a bit shady, but I'm confident that Marvin is scum, and am going to follow what Chaz said.

Vote: Terry Marvin

Will he be lynched? Maybe, maybe not. If Kris comes up town, for whatever reason (I'm still thinking she is scum, but if we lynch Marvin and he comes up scum, we could look into Kris during the night).

We still have like, 2 days, so thats why I'm going with Marvin. Confident he's scum, solid evidence (more solid then Farq's), and 2 days to figure it out. If, toward the deadline, Kris still seems like the best lynch, then that is where we should go. But right now, I'm going to trust Chaz and follow his intel since I know I'm town, and that would make his night 1 result correct. I'm banking on his night 2 being right as well.

[Michael Jennings]

I am not voting Kris and will be voting for TMarv because that information to me seems more valid than anything I've seen against Kris. It would also confirm my Set Up Theory to get an easy Kris lynch this day phase.

Vote: TMarv

[Jules]

Apr 4, 2012 18:31:44 GMT -4 Michael Jennings said:

But what I'm saying, going by Jules' list, then the Franz character would be town. Agent 47, Diana, and Agent Smith. The only option would be Diana who is likely the Godfather. As far as this situation is concerned the person I would like to hear an analysis from is Jules.

Just a quick response to this. I based my flavour analysis on the fact that Callahan stated at the start of the game it is The International Contract Agency versus The Syndicate. It seems Callahan has modified quite a bit in this game, and since there are only 3 definite Agency characters in the video game so it may be the case that Callahan flipped a character over to give 4 mafioso if there are indeed 4 mafioso. But then Agent 48s could easily be used as scum, or be the third party I suggested.

Atm, I am happy to stand by flavour analysis, which means IF Kris is Harvey's sibling as Branden claimed (and I still find it remarkable so many people are so easily taking on board Branden's claim when you consider he admitted lying and his generally foolish behaviour), she would be town.

It is obvious to state, but nobody has stated it yet, that there are scum on that bandwagon, it's just a matter of finding out who they are. I'm behind JamesV with this and until somebody can provide some evidence that isn't so flimsy and circumstantial, or based on the testimony of Harvey, I will be not voting Kris. I've joined in on bandwagons in the past for the sake of sealing a lynch and the town have been burnt for it.

That said I'm still not saying Kris is definitely town, but neither am I saying she is definitely scum.

---

Chaz's info is interesting, even if he has kind of cooked his goose in this game. The question is whether he can be relied upon since we cannot be sure which roles are modified (and considering Callahan's penchant for attention I wouldn't be surprised if he's fiddled with a lot in this game in an attempt to have it remembered). Tmarv's reaction was a bit too ad hominem for my liking, even if his point about insanity was valid, it is the easy scum defence. But then I'm not sold on this lynch either simply because we cannot be sure the information is reliable.

---

A post that doesn't so much add any new info as it explains why I am going to sit on the fence right now. I'm still in that uber-cautious phase where I don't think we need to be lynching people out of fear and on the basis of limited evidence. Lynch a townie now and by the start of day 3 we are two down. No lynch, and we are only one down, but with the leads we have examined and a night of fresh info we may be in a better position (hopefully) to lynch an actual scummy player.

I'm not saying I'm right, that's just where I stand right now. Of course, if some new info comes to light I can change my mind.

[Jules]

EBWOP - just been going through the thread and spotted an error on my part...I meant by the start of day 4 we could be a further two townies down if we mislynch. We are already in day 3 of course.

[Blade]

Whats the vote count at?

[Level-Two]

Atm, I am happy to stand by flavour analysis, which means IF Kris is Harvey's sibling as Branden claimed (and I still find it remarkable so many people are so easily taking on board Branden's claim when you consider he admitted lying and his generally foolish behaviour), she would be town.

Kris has already admitted (without outright character claiming) that she is Franz.

I can't take anyone serious who won't even at least acknowledge Kris is the sibling. It's one thing to discuss whether or not she's scum but there's no debate as to who her character is.

I'm not putting anyone on blast but I'm sure there are/will be scum who also are NOT on the Kris vote. Considering there's likely four scum players; I'm looking at the vote with an eyebrow raised.

I based my flavour analysis on the fact that Callahan stated at the start of the game it is The International Contract Agency versus The Syndicate. It seems Callahan has modified quite a bit in this game, and since there are only 3 definite Agency characters in the video game so it may be the case that Callahan flipped a character over to give 4 mafioso if there are indeed 4 mafioso.

And...

Atm, I am happy to stand by flavour analysis, which means IF Kris is Harvey's sibling as Branden claimed (and I still find it remarkable so many people are so easily taking on board Branden's claim when you consider he admitted lying and his generally foolish behaviour), she would be town.

Is it not possible that Kris became mafia AFTER Harvey was killed? You say there's three bad guys traditionally in this flavor; so going off that, it's possible that Kris has been converted to scum.

We wouldn't really know until the next write up, though -- where we see whether or not Franz show's up green.

Just an alternative view. Anything is more plausible than Kris being a sibling that doesn't die.

There's no explanation for why Harvey knew about her (and tried to out her) while she was absolutely oblivious to his existence.

For the rest of you...

Do you know if Siblings usually have communication with each-other?