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Post by Johnny Rebel on May 15, 2012 10:12:47 GMT -4
Kurt, who did you visit last night phase?
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Post by Kurt on May 15, 2012 10:19:14 GMT -4
Kurt, the only reason Callahan and I have ever been tied together was when we got the same information about Knuckles at the same time. I got it through a one-shot role sent my way by Jeff; I've said all along that I don't know how Callahan got it. You'd said I coasted through the previous day phase. I worked three baseball games in two days Friday and Saturday, and the only chance I had to check in on the thread came Saturday after the third game. I can't say it any more firmly than this: I am TOWN. And lynching me would be a big, BIG mistake this late in the game. He was also at the bottom of your "most likely to be scum" list a while back. I'm not chiding you for not actively being involved in the game. You posted when you could. My point was that besides your vote, your post didn't really add anything substantial to the game. I'm not denying your one-shot role that Jeff confirmed, and I know Callahan has hinted rolecop. The problem is now that in a lynch/lose scenario, you really just kind of sit in the middle, with nothing distinguishing minus the fact that you've been on every successful lynch. Didn't say I was voting for you, although "I'm town" is still the most hollow defense I've ever seen in a Mafia game. Kurt, who did you visit last night phase? Myself. Figured I'd be the person to protect, and I'd be able to clear anyone that visited me as not the killer. |
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Post by A.C. Smith on May 15, 2012 10:24:06 GMT -4
He was also at the bottom of your "most likely to be scum" list a while back. I'm not chiding you for not actively being involved in the game. You posted when you could. My point was that besides your vote, your post didn't really add anything substantial to the game. I'm not denying your one-shot role that Jeff confirmed, and I know Callahan has hinted rolecop. The problem is now that in a lynch/lose scenario, you really just kind of sit in the middle, with nothing distinguishing minus the fact that you've been on every successful lynch. Didn't say I was voting for you, although "I'm town" is still the most hollow defense I've ever seen in a Mafia game. Well, of that list you mentioned, it bears noting that two of the three people above Callahan WERE scum. In fact, L-1 was tops on the list, and he was the Mafia godfather. |
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Post by Kurt on May 15, 2012 10:39:40 GMT -4
You're missing the point.
I'm not calling into question your ability to recognize who's anti-town and who's not. I'm making a note that since we have 2 Mafia left, it's important to note what two players might be linked. You and Callahan had virtually identical information Day 3, and he's low on your list of "most likely to be scum." Again, I know how you acquired that information, but the point needs to be made that if one of you flips scum off a lynch, it does not paint the other in a favorable light, and could introduce the idea that one just shared their information with the other in a QT.
Literally nothing about Callahan's role-cop claim has come forward since the Knuckles lynch. He's claimed to be role-blocked one night (after the fact), and another day claimed to know Venom was third-party, without actually listing his role and after Sally had posted her information. I'll give him the fact that he might not have been able to post his information before hers, but not posting the role he received and expecting us to just buy it as evidence didn't fly with me. The problem I have with him being town is the same I had with Venom being town: He appears to be using other's information and claimed a late roleblock. It just doesn't add up to me...
But I'm willing to wait a little longer before officially making up my mind. Jules and Callahan are still unaccounted for.
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Post by A.C. Smith on May 15, 2012 10:49:21 GMT -4
Maybe I did miss your point, Kurt, but I think you're also missing mine a little bit. If I was scum (which I'm not), why would I willingly throw L-1 and Venom (among others) under the bus when the point of the scum in this game is to stay alive and lynch townies? If you think I'm trying to pull off some super-advanced strategy, you're giving a guy playing his second Mafia game EVER way too much credit.
Maybe I don't bring as much to the table as the more experienced players in this group (and hell, I'd admit as such), but everything I've done in this game has been in the best interests of the town. Callahan's character and my character are not linked, and in the immortal words of Forrest Gump, "that's all I have to say about that."
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Post by Kurt on May 15, 2012 12:23:01 GMT -4
Maybe I did miss your point, Kurt, but I think you're also missing mine a little bit. If I was scum (which I'm not), why would I willingly throw L-1 and Venom (among others) under the bus when the point of the scum in this game is to stay alive and lynch townies? If you think I'm trying to pull off some super-advanced strategy, you're giving a guy playing his second Mafia game EVER way too much credit. Maybe I don't bring as much to the table as the more experienced players in this group (and hell, I'd admit as such), but everything I've done in this game has been in the best interests of the town. Callahan's character and my character are not linked, and in the immortal words of Forrest Gump, "that's all I have to say about that." I'll stop beating the dead horse after this post, but I do want to list some problems with this defense: - You're only "throwing them under the bus" if you're on their team. The Mafia had just as much gain in eliminating the third party as the the town did, which is exactly why Callahan and you weren't cleared after Knuckles's lynch, nor why any of us look any more town for voting Venom. - While the point of this game is to stay alive, lynching townies isn't the goal: blending in with townies is the goal. You can leave the actual lynching to other townies if you really want to blend in. Voting a scum teammate isn't exactly an advanced strategy, especially if they urge you to do it; it's smart, and makes you appear more town. - I'm not denying that you have helped the town, but when we're in a lynch/lose scenario like this, we need to be absolutely certain of all the evidence when placing our votes. "I've helped the town" and "I'm definitely town" do not help you here because they're not giving us anything specific to clear you. |
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Post by Michael Callahan on May 15, 2012 12:27:10 GMT -4
I killed JamesV last night in cold blood and none of you could so sweet FA about it.  Nothing more sublime than licking fresh blood off my lips having cheated death again and again despite circumstances CONSTANTLY working against me throughout this entire game. The fact you've left me alive this long is indicative of how I've managed to play you all like fiddles through my long yet winding up lfiespan. If it wasn't for Jeff's list I never would've been detected and this game would've been a sure fire victory for me and my comrades right from the start but alas, certain circumstances and mishappenings means that I have been caught redhanded and am going to hang by the neck for this. So be it. I know that none of you will believe the truth of what happened last night so I might as well throw down what you're going to hear anyway. This post is a load of pony and I shouldn't be in the position I am now where I'm having to bare faced taunt you all because of how big of a mistake you're making. With me gone, you're 2-2 and it's game over. Nice going. I know who the real scum players are but seeing as you're so hellbent on damning because of some stupid list then I'm going to watch this town burn. Thanks for playing guys. T-Marv, you've been a good mod. God bless you all. |
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Post by Michael Callahan on May 15, 2012 12:30:57 GMT -4
Vote: Callahan
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Post by Kurt on May 15, 2012 12:37:25 GMT -4
Do you see a vote for you anywhere that ISN'T you?
Do you see me saying "ARGH, WE HAVE TO LYNCH CALLAHAN!"
And it's not just that Goddamn list that puts you in a bad spot, which you fail to understand. You saved L1. You claimed that when you investigated him, you were role-blocked (late, and we haven't seen anyone else rightfully claim to be role-blocked minus JamesV). You haven't validated anything of your role-cop claim.
Your defeatist attitude makes me want to vote you so badly. I'm giving you a chance to save yourself, and you respond like that. Man, I guess I should have given up when I had 4 of 6 votes on me...
Now you're voting yourself, meaning if you are town, you just put yourself in a ready to be killed situation by the 2 remaining scum. If you actually gave two shits about the town, you'd be trying to help yourself right now.
I gave L1 the chance to validate his investigative role to save himself. I give you the same chance.
So prove you are town.
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Post by Michael Callahan on May 15, 2012 12:54:06 GMT -4
Oh come off it Kurt. You've been riding me ever since that list came out. Yeah I saved L1 and blew it. I get that. You don't buy my idea that I got roleblocked because quite a few people misclaimed roleblocker and the town RBer was already dead? I think I've made it painfully clear already what my role was, and it's not completely unexpected in Mafia games for the Scum to have a Mafia role too.
But with all your superstitions and allegations, do you really think you're going to believe this next line? Because I sure as Hell wouldn't.
I visited JamesV last night to find his role. I was alarmed by his constant defending of me throughout the game and wasn't sure if he was trying to keep an easy lynch alive for later (after what shall hence forth be known as the Level One "Game Over" disaster), saving me for an NK to try and orientate a more prolific lynch during the day (of a more powerful player like yourself) or was genuinely convinced that I've been 100% town the entire game who had the choice of making a few bad decisions.
It sounds like complete pony. It's not but I could totally understand why you would vote against me now.
So please just put this one to bed.
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Post by Kurt on May 15, 2012 13:18:19 GMT -4
Fair enough.
Last question: So who do you think are the last two scum? You "know who the real scum players are," so it'd be nice to hear some rationale behind it.
The only night you haven't vouched for now is night 1 as well.
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Post by Michael Callahan on May 15, 2012 13:30:34 GMT -4
Night 1 I visited Blade. Chose not to say anything about him because obviously he had a good role and was constructive for town.
Honestly? I don't know anything for definite anymore. When I said I knew who the real scum were, I figured it'd be you and Johnny Rebel given how hard you've been backing up J-Reb about his innocence and your constant pushing of me but now I'm totally confused. I'm leaning towards J-Reb for his abject silence this entire game but you've remained adamant of his innocence.
So what now? Where do we go from here?
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Post by Michael Callahan on May 15, 2012 13:33:05 GMT -4
Plus, I know I'm town and you're the only one left on that list that isn't me.
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Post by Michael Callahan on May 15, 2012 13:42:27 GMT -4
Unvote
Safety precaution. Just in case.
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Post by Kurt on May 15, 2012 13:45:37 GMT -4
I know Rebel is 100% not the killer. I also believe he's town because his role mirrors mine. I realize I'm asking the town to take that at face value though.
As for now...I guess I'm just waiting on Jules to pipe in and say something. The killer has to be either you or AC Smith, so I'm more interested in seeing if he's been doing anything productive in his nightly visits. He visited me night 1 and visited you Night 4, so I'm quite curious as to what he's been up to.
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Post by Michael Callahan on May 15, 2012 13:54:33 GMT -4
I know Rebel is 100% not the killer. I also believe he's town because his role mirrors mine. I realize I'm asking the town to take that at face value though. As for now...I guess I'm just waiting on Jules to pipe in and say something. The killer has to be either you or AC Smith, so I'm more interested in seeing if he's been doing anything productive in his nightly visits. He visited me night 1 and visited you Night 4, so I'm quite curious as to what he's been up to. Rebel is not the killer but clearly there's only one killer and an extra scum player to kill. Do you have any concrete evidence other than his word (or lack of, as it seems, this game) to be able to solidly say that he is? |
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Post by Johnny Rebel on May 15, 2012 14:39:37 GMT -4
Unless there is some kind of twist to Kurt's role - he's innocent.
He visited himself on a night where we had two people end up dead. I don't think he'd be the one doing the killing. That doesn't clear him of aiding scum somehow but is a strong case.
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Post by Michael Callahan on May 15, 2012 15:07:43 GMT -4
Unless there is some kind of twist to Kurt's role - he's innocent. He visited himself on a night where we had two people end up dead. I don't think he'd be the one doing the killing. That doesn't clear him of aiding scum somehow but is a strong case. It's not completely uncommon for the scum to be able to decide amongst themselves who makes the kill. Thus, this case isn't as strong as you'd make it out to be. I'm more convinced of Noble's township than yours, though. |
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Post by Kurt on May 15, 2012 15:32:56 GMT -4
Should we forget I was always cleared by the town cop (who was sane)...or that I had a 10 page argument with the Godfather?
I also know that Rebel visited me last night, because I visited myself and saw who visited me. I'm 100% certain Rebel is town because I was originally led to believe he and I had the same role. I won't say anymore than that for the sake of character or role-claiming.
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Post by Michael Callahan on May 16, 2012 17:01:41 GMT -4
So who are we lynching then? This game has died on its arse and we're no closer to finding out who the scum is. If we don't lynch someone today then we'll definitely lose.
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Post by Jules on May 16, 2012 17:37:46 GMT -4
I know Rebel is 100% not the killer. I also believe he's town because his role mirrors mine. I realize I'm asking the town to take that at face value though. As for now...I guess I'm just waiting on Jules to pipe in and say something. The killer has to be either you or AC Smith, so I'm more interested in seeing if he's been doing anything productive in his nightly visits. He visited me night 1 and visited you Night 4, so I'm quite curious as to what he's been up to. First of all, let me apologise for being inactive of late. I've been quite a bit of work thrown my way so not had much time to check in and contribute. (p.s. thanks for the friendly prod Tmarv.) Anyway, my ability ended after night 4. I did visit Kurt night 1 and my action was successful, which probably contributed to Kurt surviving. My visit to Callahan night 4 turned up a curious result - innocent. I was a bit perplexed by this because Callahan has been suspect all along - I don't need to regurgitate the evidence here and now. Anyway, I decided to sit on this info because Jake Venom was to my mind clearly anti-town, and with Sally's info to corroborate those suspicions that lynch seemed a safe bet. I've had my doubts about A.C. Smith, but he hasn't said or done anything to make his alignment obvious, and JamesV's gameplay raised an eyebrow. It should suffice to say that now JamesV has come back town it leaves us with only two options. Either a) Callahan is town and genuinely innocent. or b) Callahan may have inherited L1's GF powers when L1 |
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Post by Jules on May 16, 2012 17:49:49 GMT -4
EBWOP (Stupid keyboard)
First of all, let me apologise for being inactive of late. I've been quite a bit of work thrown my way so not had much time to check in and contribute. (p.s. thanks for the friendly prod Tmarv.)
Anyway, my ability ended after night 4. I did visit Kurt night 1 and my action was successful, which probably contributed to Kurt surviving. My visit to Callahan night 4 turned up a curious result - innocent.
I was a bit perplexed by this because Callahan has been suspect all along - I don't need to regurgitate the evidence here and now. Anyway, I decided to sit on this info because Jake Venom was to my mind clearly anti-town, and with Sally's info to corroborate those suspicions that lynch seemed a safe bet.
I've had my doubts about A.C. Smith, but he hasn't said or done anything to make his alignment obvious, and JamesV's gameplay raised an eyebrow. It should suffice to say that now JamesV has come back town it leaves us with only two options.
Either
a) Callahan is town and genuinely innocent.
or
b) Callahan may have inherited L1's GF powers when L1 died (if we assume he, Callahan, is scum)
Additionally, I did roleblock Callahan successfully night 2, but failed to kill a now known anti-town player during night 3.
Typical of this game, there seems to be conflicting evidence. To my mind it's a question of whether we take my read at face value, or follow the mountain of evidence against Callahan. In light of the evidence, my innocent read could be accounted for if Callahan has adopted GF status.
Callahan's tantrum earlier irks me because although Callahan can be a bit of a drama queen I can't decide whether it was a rant by a frustrated player, or simply some rouse by an anti-town player.
The way I see Callahan is the only plausible lynch right now. (To answer your question, Michael)
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Post by A.C. Smith on May 16, 2012 19:13:00 GMT -4
I'm torn for a few reasons. I was waiting for Crown Jules to check in before going any further (as I imagine everyone else was), and he did bring up some interesting points. Namely, the read on Callahan coming up innocent, which could be either him actually being town or him being the Godfather.
At any rate, considering we're 3 vs. 2 at this point, there are a couple of possibilities that are logical at this point.
- Callahan is scum and is the Godfather.
- Callahan is scum, but was protected somehow and the investigation got thrown off or misdirected.
- Callahan is scum and Jules is lying, since he's the second Mafia member.
- Callahan is actually innocent.
IF Callahan is innocent, then that means a combination of Noble, J-Reb, and Jules are working together to throw a monkey wrench into the proceedings. Of these three, I'm most confident that Noble is town, given that he was cleared by our town cop.
As a town member, I am nowhere near confident enough to vote yet, which is a credit to the anti-town players, who have played well today in raising enough doubt about everyone else. I would like to hear everyone else's responses to Jules's information before going forward.
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Post by Kurt on May 16, 2012 22:40:53 GMT -4
I would like to hear everyone else's responses to Jules's information before going forward. It sounds fake. It's literally the same problem I had with Callahan's info: it's late. Why did Jules not tell us all of this after night 4 when his ability ran out? Coming out now, on perhaps the last day, looks like a contrived story...that has a ton of holes in it. Oh...okay. How do you know it contributed to me surviving when Nick Watson (Cult target) and Sally (Mafia target) ended up dying? That doesn't add up to me, and neither does holding back on the innocent reading on Callahan. I get why Sally held back information...but not you. So, let me get this straight... You roleblock Callahan night 2? Funny...because he had information on Day 3...that he got from his role that night. You apparently never called him out on it. Here's his post: Callahan claims he was role-blocked Night 3 trying to investigate L1, not Night 2. That means one of you is lying. Hell, maybe you two are the last two Mafia. The fact that you also tried to kill a player with no heat on them the day BEFORE they looked scummy, and were subsequently lynched does not help you. I'm set of voting for you or Callahan, because one of you...Hell, maybe both of you are scum. There's similar strategies, and one glaring lie here about the roleblock. My question now is...which one of you lied? I'll let this one sink in for a bit before casting my vote in the morning. |
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Post by Jules on May 17, 2012 4:01:30 GMT -4
It sounds fake. It's literally the same problem I had with Callahan's info: it's late. Why did Jules not tell us all of this after night 4 when his ability ran out? Coming out now, on perhaps the last day, looks like a contrived story...that has a ton of holes in it. Because there wasn't any need to reveal this information. This doesn't go against me at all, sounds like someone trying to spin the yarn that way. Oh...okay. How do you know it contributed to me surviving when Nick Watson (Cult target) and Sally (Mafia target) ended up dying? That doesn't add up to me, and neither does holding back on the innocent reading on Callahan. I get why Sally held back information...but not you. Because the message I got back was to the effect that I was successful. So, let me get this straight... You roleblock Callahan night 2? Funny...because he had information on Day 3...that he got from his role that night. You apparently never called him out on it. Here's his post: Callahan claims he was role-blocked Night 3 trying to investigate L1, not Night 2. That means one of you is lying. I can only report the info I have. The fact that you also tried to kill a player with no heat on them the day BEFORE they looked scummy, and were subsequently lynched does not help you. I voted for him day 3. You may have not thought he was scummy, but I did. I don't need any further justification. Just because an action doesn't fit your agenda, Kurt, doesn't make it scummy. I'm set of voting for you or Callahan, because one of you...Hell, maybe both of you are scum. There's similar strategies, and one glaring lie here about the roleblock. My question now is...which one of you lied? I'll let this one sink in for a bit before casting my vote in the morning. You got to do what you feel you have do, Kurt. I can't vouch for Callahan, and neither have I done so, just given my info, even if it is late. You can take it for what it is or concoct some story about it, but not everything is a conspiracy, or has to be construed that way. |
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Post by T-Marv on May 17, 2012 8:33:11 GMT -4
Alright folks... No vote count to report.
Deadline is tomorrow at 8:00am EST
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Post by Kurt on May 17, 2012 9:23:23 GMT -4
It absolutely goes against you, especially when it doesn't all add up.
Even if you got back a message saying "you successfully protected Kurt Noble" doesn't mean I was attacked in any way. We've seen no other character or person claim the ability to kill minus Sally, and that was a gift from Jeff.
And I can only tell you aspects of it that don't make sense.
Except for the fact that you didn't vote for him Day 3. That was Day 4, so by your narrative...you tried to kill Jake Venom night 3 (it failed, oddly enough), and then you started voting for him Day 4. He wasn't even lynched until Day 5. You see how this doesn't add up?
The only "story" I've concocted is the one from your information. I really didn't have anything on you until your information started clashing together. Your RB claim contrasts with what we've already been told and your whole story about Jake Venom doesn't make sense when you look how the events of Day 3/4 actually went.
My vote is coming up very shortly.
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Post by Kurt on May 17, 2012 13:03:15 GMT -4
Time to make a decision everyone. I've made mine.
Vote: Crown Jules
It was you or Callahan, and while he may be the scummiest looking player in this game, your information and narrative just do not add up; Callahan's does by the weakest thread. This story seems like an ill-fated attempt to put together 4 days worth of activities, and it just doesn't work for me. I'm willing to bet the game on the fact that you're one of the remaining scum players.
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Post by Michael Callahan on May 17, 2012 14:30:24 GMT -4
Callahan's tantrum earlier irks me because although Callahan can be a bit of a drama queen I can't decide whether it was a rant by a frustrated player, or simply some rouse by an anti-town player. Go fuck yourself, Jules. |
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Post by T-Marv on May 17, 2012 15:03:13 GMT -4
Hey Guys... let's keep it Kosher okay... No personal attacks.
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Nothing more sublime than licking fresh blood off my lips having cheated death again and again despite circumstances CONSTANTLY working against me throughout this entire game.
