Kris
Midcarder
There's no lie in her fire.
Posts: 342
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Post by Kris on Feb 2, 2012 16:33:22 GMT -4
unvote vote: KrisIn a day 1 chock full o' finger-pointing and experimentation, silence just became suspicious. What do you mean silence? I'm the one that brought up the idea of voting for Level-One as a test theory, and set it into motion. I made a rookie mistake in confusing whose vote it was that got redirected and unvoting as an end result, but that doesn't make the attempt any less valid. Furthermore, I'm not the only one that hasn't said much. If you look at the post count, there's a lot of others that haven't said much, either-- Biggs, Hometown Heroes, Bacon, Metro, CJ, and Noble have all contributed less. I think you're reaching, here, when it comes to declaring that someone not posting to excess as you are automatically makes them suspicious. Also, I have to agree with Atken's theory of Sylar being a third party since he wasn't so much a villain that had a side as he was just someone that fucked up everybody's shit equally. It would make sense, since we're talking just Seasons 1 and 2. |
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Kris
Midcarder
There's no lie in her fire.
Posts: 342
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Post by Kris on Feb 2, 2012 16:37:48 GMT -4
EBWOP: Actually, looking at it? A lot of what you're saying, Dynamo, is just parroting off things that other people have already said and tried while trying to pass it off as you contributing. Methinks you doth protest too much about other peoples' activity levels in an attempt to cover your own tracks.
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Post by Level-Two on Feb 2, 2012 16:45:23 GMT -4
Well, I had a theory but it was late at night and it's pretty much blown out the water now. I forgot that T-Marv's vote on President Jeff also went to Atkens... which means my character probably has nothing to do with why that is.
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Post by Michael Jennings on Feb 2, 2012 18:49:23 GMT -4
Gotta agree with Kris about Dynamo's vote. It's reaching at best and Kris has been active so voting for that reason is almost pointless. As far as the vote thing is concerned do any characters in the series have magnetic powers? Maybe that would explain the vote going to a certain player. Their power attracts things. Just an idea. Thinking similar to Magneto.
Right now the only people I would even consider voting for are Dynamo and Atken. Atken has been all over the place and Dynamo's bizarre vote on Kris are the reasons why. Plus as knuckles pointed out earlier Atken was defensive in one of his posts and Dynamo voting for a player who has been more active than some players is a bit odd and might be a tell.
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Post by Phil Atken on Feb 2, 2012 21:25:04 GMT -4
unvote I didn't think it was random, I thought something else was going on. Now, if we assume normal mafia play, we haven't had a night 1, so if someone was stealing and redirecting votes it would have to be a day action and to be honest, a ballsy one at that. However, Knuckles pushing for "one of these guys must be scum, right???" makes me think something else is certainly going on and Knuckles as scum has leaped at the opportunity to pidgeonhole discussion. Now I just have to wonder if scum would be as blatant as that on day 1. However to help testing with the theories, it appears my vote on James has had no issues but to just see if we're all tied in some way vote: TMarv just seems logical phil..... pretty defensive for somebody claiming town It's not logical based on anything we know at this point. We don't know why the votes are happening the way we are. We don't know if it's be driver, if it's random or if there's an outside force at play. It's not defensive, it's me openly pondering if you are scum based on a pigeon hole tactic or if you're not scum because that would be far too blatant day 1. Especially when you are doubling down on that belief in this very post. James, don't be an idiot, it's not "all over the place" the baseline of being suspect on day 1 is incredibly low. Bacon bandwagoned a joke vote, you tried to position yourself as the "serious townie, seriously a townie guy, trying to move discussion along" which is sometimes sincere, sometimes not. These are not strong cases, there are no strong cases with such low participation and those two things panged my gut reads. All over the place would be a lack of consistency, I'm not ruling you or Bacon out at all but neither of you are my strongest read at the moment. Don't worry though, you're still up there dear leader. Of the three of you, we haven't seen anything of Bacon since that silly vote, which could really go either way. You, I still don't like to be honest. My strongest read is on Knuckles though, even if I wasn't involved in the situation his actions are very scummy to me. |
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Post by Michael Jennings on Feb 2, 2012 21:52:57 GMT -4
James, don't be an idiot, it's not "all over the place" the baseline of being suspect on day 1 is incredibly low. Bacon bandwagoned a joke vote, you tried to position yourself as the "serious townie, seriously a townie guy, trying to move discussion along" which is sometimes sincere, sometimes not. These are not strong cases, there are no strong cases with such low participation and those two things panged my gut reads. All over the place would be a lack of consistency, I'm not ruling you or Bacon out at all but neither of you are my strongest read at the moment. Don't worry though, you're still up there dear leader. Of the three of you, we haven't seen anything of Bacon since that silly vote, which could really go either way. You, I still don't like to be honest. My strongest read is on Knuckles though, even if I wasn't involved in the situation his actions are very scummy to me. Don't you EVER call me an idiot again. I will go apeshit on you right now if you do and that's the truth. Now to destroy your entire assbackwards logic as it relates to the game. You have been all over the place, don't deny it. You've voted without reason and got all pissy when confronted by another player. That is the DEFINITION of all over the place. Right now the way you're playing, doing things such as telling me not to be an idiot when I'm calling you out for doing things that I perceive to be a possible scum tell, tells me that you're being a little too defensive when confronted. Your entire logic in this game is illogical. If you are town I'm going to be shocked at this point given the things I'm seeing right now. Making sarcastic comments such as calling me "leader" is telling. I think you did it to see if you could get away with it and right now you wont. Somebody doing blatant scummy posts day one (like you said about Knuckles) is the DUMBEST MOVE EVER. No one sane would do that unless they are a jester. I don't think there are any jester-esque characters on heroes so I'd say that is highly unlikely. However your little sarcastic repartee has my alarm bells going off to the point where I'm going to vote you. I could care less about you voting me. The fact is you're mad at the two guys calling you out and someone you voted WITHOUT POSTING A REASON IN YOUR VOTE POST. *ahem* That said, I am voting for Atken because of everything stated above and in my previous posts on him. He's flip-flopping, being defensive, making sarcastic comments, and name calling all this early in the game. Scum tells? Yes, MAJOR scum tells hence my vote on him. Vote: Phil Atken |
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Post by Phil Atken on Feb 2, 2012 21:59:09 GMT -4
Idiot explosion
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Post by Phil Atken on Feb 2, 2012 22:00:05 GMT -4
Also everything you just listed in terms of name calling and sarcasm, wasn't that your starter case in Saw Mafia.
How'd that work out for you?
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Post by Metrodamus on Feb 2, 2012 22:03:04 GMT -4
Vote: Bacon
His actions are by the far the scummiest of the day.
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Kid Dynamo
Low Carder
Worst Mafia player...EVER!!![F4:KidDynamoAPW]
Posts: 288
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Post by Kid Dynamo on Feb 2, 2012 22:03:28 GMT -4
Lets stay level-headed here. Tomorrow we have to decide whether or not to perform a presumably rare day 1 lynch. It's hard to believe we can nail a scumbag our first try but the odds are still better than waiting until the scum pick at night.
That said, we need to present evidence and allegations without getting too emotional. Everyone knows that acting town either means you are legit town, lying scum, town "because that'd be too obvious for scum", or scum "because doing what's obviously scum would never be expected".
In other words, if you think someone is scum, say so without making it a witch hunt. If you are alleged against, calmly defend yourself without a ton of finger-pointing. We have 24 hours to catch lightning in a bottle. Good luck.
unvote
vote: Biggs
I apologize Kris. Regardless of it's validity, my logic should've pointed towards Biggs. To repeat my theory: everyone has been collecting evidence and pointing fingers except a few. I know if I was scum, I'd want as few lynches as possible because I control night kills; I have little control during the day.
Of all those who have held their tongues, Biggs is to my knowledge the only one who has encouraged people to not vote and essentially let the first night kill occur.
That said, I respect his forthcoming defense.
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Kris
Midcarder
There's no lie in her fire.
Posts: 342
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Post by Kris on Feb 2, 2012 22:20:28 GMT -4
Your reasoning is still majorly flawed, Dynamo, since there's still too many people at this point that haven't posted much-- far too many to allow you to conclusively say that inactivity = suspicion... and how desperately you're clinging to it reeks of an attempt to deflect suspicion from yourself. Unfortunately for you, I'm not falling for it.
Vote: Kid Dynamo
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Post by Reaver on Feb 2, 2012 23:07:03 GMT -4
lmfao i cant stop laughing at this..... phil, we both know james is valid with his point. on that same note Kris is just as valid with dynamo. 2 VERY possible scum? phil has be extremely defensive and dynamo has been throwing votes on everybody under the sun. this could honestly be a tactic used to confuse everybody. i say we figure out the most logical then turn attention to the other? then again im always up for waiting til day 2. i dont think ive ever played a mafia game this intense.....Noble has Blade gunning for him as the top mafia game spot. excellent job Blade |
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Post by biggs on Feb 2, 2012 23:09:55 GMT -4
When I originally posted, there wasn't nearly enough information to go on to base a vote. Now that things have exploded, there's more information to go on. The only reason I suggested not voting yet was saying that there wasn't any reason to quite yet at the point of my post. Obviously, things have changed.
After reading through everything that's happened so far, I want to follow up on the Atken vote. I'm not sure if he's role playing or being flat out mean to James V, but either way, he's been a bit scummy.
Vote: Phil Atken
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Post by Kurt on Feb 2, 2012 23:10:14 GMT -4
I apologize for my inactivity. I did not expect Day 1 to be this active. I’ll make a huge post commenting on everything that catches my attention to make up for it!
Honestly, for the voting pattern, literally the best thing for Tmarv to do is vote constantly and look for a pattern. If one emerges, then it’s a mod intervention/stipulation added to his vote. If not, someone could be controlling his vote and placing it wherever they want. My only problem with that aspect is that whoever controls his vote would need to be active to match every vote of his, so that might throw some more confusion in the game. So, Tmarv, my advice is to vote often and vote randomly at first to see if a clear pattern emerges, because clearly one has not yet minus the vote staying on Atken. I also don’t think he’s scum because he has a noticeable power…scum powers are designed to make you blend in, not stand out.
Speaking of random voting, you need to slow down a bit Kid. All this jumping around is probably going to bite you later on. Plus, voting for inactive people is one of two things…
1. A rookie play (duh)
2. An easy scum strategy
I’m betting on the former. Why draw this much attention to yourself? Plus, as others have pointed out, Kris has been more active than me, James, Bacon, Hometown Heroes, and probably one other…so why did you point at her? Your dartboard comment from earlier seems kinda odd now. I think you're town, but you're throwing yourself into the wind right now.
Biggs is telling us not to vote haphazardly so we don’t end up with a dead townie based off nothing on Day 1. I don’t blame him really. Last game the town fared well by keeping power roles in play, something that might not have happened with a crazy day 1 bandwagon.
Phil is playing rather aggressively, if a little too prickish…but maybe that’s his strategy. I think he’s got a definite reason for playing the way he is, but I haven’t figured it out yet.
That’s all my thoughts for the moment. I’ll try and post again before the day ends.
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Post by Kurt on Feb 2, 2012 23:11:52 GMT -4
EBWOP:
Also, "idiot explosion" is my vote for quote of the game, however dickish it is, ha. Jeff being "cum" may be dethroned...
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Post by Reaver on Feb 2, 2012 23:17:48 GMT -4
EBWOP: Also, "idiot explosion" is my vote for quote of the game, however dickish it is, ha. Jeff being "cum" may be dethroned... NEVER!!! jeff will always be cum ;D ;D |
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Post by Johnny Rebel on Feb 2, 2012 23:34:40 GMT -4
The only information we know at this point is that something is fishy with TMarv's vote, JamesV and Atken are at each others throats and Dynamo is all over the place (apparently both in-character and out!).
I'm a little bit surprised at L1's game plan so far... I expected him to keep quiet in an effort to not get himself killed but not this quiet.
The back and forth that the first day phase has created has been very interesting. I'm not sure I've seen this much action on day one in a Mafia game ever... but in all honesty, even with all the chaos, we still don't know very much. The best strategy at this point is to make someone squirm until they come out with some helpful information. So, with that being said....
Unvote Vote Kid Dynamo
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Post by Michael Jennings on Feb 2, 2012 23:39:28 GMT -4
This coming from the IDIOT who started it. You want to start name calling? That's fine. Quit being a dick and play the game like a grown up. Instead you're acting like a little child who's mad he isn't getting his way and purposefully trying to cause shit with the people who called him out. |
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Post by Michael Jennings on Feb 2, 2012 23:42:33 GMT -4
Also everything you just listed in terms of name calling and sarcasm, wasn't that your starter case in Saw Mafia. How'd that work out for you? Oh look, you're metagaming now. How quaint. I also got second place in mafia player of the year voting here. How does that compute into your thinly veiled personal attackes? GROW UP. |
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Kid Dynamo
Low Carder
Worst Mafia player...EVER!!![F4:KidDynamoAPW]
Posts: 288
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Post by Kid Dynamo on Feb 3, 2012 0:10:22 GMT -4
unvote
I'm not declaring my theory invalid, but Biggs was silent because of final fantasy. Sorry bout that.
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Kid Dynamo
Low Carder
Worst Mafia player...EVER!!![F4:KidDynamoAPW]
Posts: 288
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Post by Kid Dynamo on Feb 3, 2012 0:28:04 GMT -4
@rebel
The only defense I can give is that I have been outspoken. Yes, I could be rabble-rousing, or I could just be playing too ADD, or I could be appearing to be an uber-noob so that I'm perceived as non-threatening.
Truth is: I don't like that you voted me, but I'm not yet ready to cast a revenge/cancel vote. I'm not sorry for being all over the place and I hope that that endears me as a person who takes the threat of impending mafia death a little too seriously.
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Post by Level-Two on Feb 3, 2012 0:28:47 GMT -4
LOL!
What more do I really have to say that I haven't already said? I'm not going to sit here and type a bunch of nonsense just for the sake of typing nonsense; which quite honestly, I'm seeing a lot of here.
Also, last game I said nothing day one and I'm pretty sure you had me night killed... so why would you assume I'd expect a different result a game later?
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Post by C.J. Gates on Feb 3, 2012 1:04:52 GMT -4
Damn. Stuff is actually happening on day one? APW games are usually quiet for the first day, though after reading through what I have missed and what has been posted the two that are jumping out at me are Kid Dynamo and Atken.
Kid Dynamo simply because of what he has currently said. As Kris pointed out, there are more than just the two he voted for that haven't said much (myself included) to immediately jump onto the bandwagon. Though, there is always someone in the games looking to lynch the inactives, so I'm willing to hold off voting him for now.
As for Atken, James is playing the way James always plays, and the butting head thing you're doing with him is kind of sending up red flags for me.
I'm not going to vote just yet, simply because I want to read back through and make sure I am sure of my vote before doing it.
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Kid Dynamo
Low Carder
Worst Mafia player...EVER!!![F4:KidDynamoAPW]
Posts: 288
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Post by Kid Dynamo on Feb 3, 2012 1:43:56 GMT -4
I'm officially nervous. As Rebel has astutely picked up on, the verbal/typing diarrhea is not something that is solely in character, and I'm'a be pissed if I get lynched for not keeping my mouth shut when a seasoned vet would know better.
That said, can I get a little assistance from the group as to why the lynching inactives strategy is inherently flawed? The reasoning I see is simple: lynching does not help scum. If I was scum, I'd be totally peachy with no lynchings because every non-vote is one more day that every scumbag survives. The town has to lynch to win.
I get that the fear is that "idiots" like me are jumping the gun and causing a bandwagon vote where we lose someone that the town needs to overcome the scum. But, I'm kinda with JamesV in the sheer sense that agressive play makes more sense than passive play. Again, a passive town is just a sitting duck for the scum. I'm guessing I'll get some sage advice about "waiting until there's more evidence" but I'm also assuming every single one of you is smarter than I am at this game; therefore, I personally have no way of knowing what's genuine and what's "a tell" and what's "so genuine that it's a tell" and "such an obvious tell that it's genuine", etc.
Can I also say that, so far, it appears that no level of finger-pointing is going to get a lynch vote today. Phil and I are not the only ones changing our votes, and Biggs/CJ/Noble are not the only ones who appear to be havily favoring abstaining from the vote today.
I'll be totally clear: the Matt Slater vote was because the "vote shifting" bit had started and I immediately thought that we should all start voting for widespread random people to chart further vote-shifting patterns. If all 17 of us vote for one other person and we agreed to not vote the same person twice, there is no threat of a lynch, right?
The Kris and Biggs votes were a mistake, not of logic, but of who I chose. I forgot Kris had been around, and I forgot that Biggs had made it pretty clear that he was occupied the past couple days so it's grossly unfair to judge him harshly for being inactive.
If I sound like I am overly defensive, it's because I really don't feel like dying, and I also feel like the worst thing I can do is correct my actions. If you trust me to jump to conclusions and be easily swayed by sound logic, you still trust me, and I am still useful. It is when my actions start to be truly random that I am no longer trustworthy and therefore I am worthless to the town and you might as well lynch me.
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Post by Matt Slater on Feb 3, 2012 1:50:07 GMT -4
From what I can gather after reading all of this, there seem to be a few developments emerging, and on day one that is a rarity. To start, let's be honest here, Dynamo has continuously voted and unvoted when his defensive strategy has been called into question, making him seem like a hesitant townie or a strategic scum, but perhaps that could be a rookie mistake - coming from a rookie of this game too. As for Kris, I sense her target is primarily on Dynamo regarding his back-and-forth agendas, interchanging opinions, and focuses on those who haven't said much, possibly to leave him vulnerable and take him out later.
As for James and Atkin, their blow-up has really drawn major suspicion for me. Could James be the scum based on his responsive outbursts towards Atkin, or could Atkin be the scum based on his quick-fire attempts to make James more angry and expose something crucial that he needs? Who knows. Maybe they're both town, which makes their duelling much more confusing ... unless one is scum and one is town, which I'm going to be keeping track of as this game goes by.
With that said, a potential lynch on Day 1 this early could be made a possibility at this rate, but is it essential? Not necessarily. Patterns are going to form sooner or later - as Noble stated with Tmarv's voting troubles based on some sort of moderation tool and from those staying silent, such as Bacon and Hart, and from Knuckles' sporadic, random posts - and we need to monitor these patterns as they form.
Still, for me, there isn't enough evidence to single out one particular person that could be a townie or a scum, so I'm going to keep my eyes peeled. And that isn't me avoiding the inevitable debates and arguments, or staying silent on purpose; that is merely me waiting for something intriguing to sprout and taking the opportunity to clarify a vote.
Although, James and Atkin are the two key ones I'll be watching closely...
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Kris
Midcarder
There's no lie in her fire.
Posts: 342
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Post by Kris on Feb 3, 2012 1:54:22 GMT -4
To say that the mafia doesn't also want lynches is, again, flawed since a lynched townie helps them just as much as a night kill-- if not moreso. Not only that, but inactivity is not always a hallmark of a scum player.
What is, though, is a lot of what you're doing.
It's obvious you're desperately trying to backpedal now that your suspicious actions have been noticed and called upon-- not just your vote on me for a reason that was obviously flawed, but also how you're probably the most guilty of parroting off other points/ideas for information gathering out of anyone that is in the game. Testing if Level-One had some sort of ability that bounced votes, for example? My idea, one that Farquahr later experimented further on.
Add onto that how you're posting far too much in an attempt to save your own hide and my vote on you stands.
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Post by Matt Slater on Feb 3, 2012 1:55:01 GMT -4
EBWOP
And after reading Dynamo's post, his apologetic statements have also intrigued me. I'm not certain if his post was part of the game or not, but from the way it ended, I'm adding him to my wary list.
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Kris
Midcarder
There's no lie in her fire.
Posts: 342
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Post by Kris on Feb 3, 2012 1:55:56 GMT -4
EBYOP: Also, my post was intended as a reply to Dynamo-- just to be clear. I didn't know Slater was posting at the same time as me.
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Kid Dynamo
Low Carder
Worst Mafia player...EVER!!![F4:KidDynamoAPW]
Posts: 288
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Post by Kid Dynamo on Feb 3, 2012 2:08:21 GMT -4
I'm backpedaling my vote because you were right, Kris, and I admitted that. I still think inactivity is inherently suspicious, and I still think the scum win when no vote is made, but I can't vote you for inactivity.
I do feel it is beneficial to the town to vote for someone. If I'm the most suspicious, then martyr me. I don't want to die, but it's better than waiting around for the mafia to decide I'm the biggest threat and pull the trigger in my sleep.
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Post by Matt Slater on Feb 3, 2012 2:37:06 GMT -4
I'm backpedaling my vote because you were right, Kris, and I admitted that. I still think inactivity is inherently suspicious, and I still think the scum win when no vote is made, but I can't vote you for inactivity. I do feel it is beneficial to the town to vote for someone. If I'm the most suspicious, then martyr me. I don't want to die, but it's better than waiting around for the mafia to decide I'm the biggest threat and pull the trigger in my sleep. See, that kind of response implies that you're seemingly playing a town to cover your tracks as a scum ... OR you REALLY could be a town and you're blatantly admitting to being one. And just to state logic here, inactivity could be due to other occurrences, instead of them remaining purposefully silent as not to be found out about their assigned role. Plus, the scum would lose based on votes if a lynch is verified, because that is one of their player's down in an instant. Both the town and the scum lose based on this gaming dynamic, not one sole side. Yet there is also the fact that you said that the town SHOULD vote for someone? Why? Why should the town concede to that ... unless it's for the scum to take advantage of. I don't even think the scum would be that foolish to go all out on votes which could lead the townies to take advantage either. Overall, you're not exactly grasping at straws with your back-peddling, but you are drawing more attention to your current predicament than you are attempting to sweep it away, especially when you keep making references to your possibility of being a townie and having the Mafia gun you down. I'm quite curious about this, I must admit. |
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